Terrible No Good Very Bad "Classic" Areas

USBRIT wrote: Spoken like a true sports climber... Welcome to adventure climbing....

My thoughts as well. The desert is...interesting for sure. Drilled pins are the norm and the Fisher Towers are classic scary fun. I always need a week before I start thinking it might be fun to go back and get scared on something else.

I guess it should be classic desert climbing. It's definitely not for sport climbers or even trad climbers that are only comfortable with the solid placements of granite. But, it is definitely classic.

Vedauwoo here.

USBRIT wrote: Spoken like a true sports climber... Welcome to adventure climbing....

Ryan Hamilton wrote: My thoughts as well. The desert is...interesting for sure. Drilled pins are the norm and the Fisher Towers are classic scary fun. I always need a week before I start thinking it might be fun to go back and get scared on something else. I guess it should be classic desert climbing. It's definitely not for sport climbers or even trad climbers that are only comfortable with the solid placements of granite. But, it is definitely classic.

Pffft whatever. You don't have to be a "sport climber" to think that climbing crumbly sandstone and mud towers is a shit a$$ endeavor. I've climbed through plenty of choss on alpine and trad climbs for routes that I thought were classic, but I have zero desire to climb the Fishers (or go back to Garden of the Gods). "Classic" status is largely determined by your own metric value. By my standards, Tuolumne is super, mega, rockstar classic despite the fact that I have climbed many obscure, uncrowded and also mega classic granite domes elsewhere in the Southern Sierra. But that doesn't mean that I would dog reboot for thinking that Tuolumne is over-rated.

Also, Eldo is a choss pile. There I said it too. Some good routes? Sure. Too much choss for "classic" status in my book? Yup. Even Yellow Wall is sub-classic in my book despite some good climbing and cool exposure. But I can certainly understand why others like it. To each his own.

I get the sense there's a lot of salty, poor-form crack climbers bitching about great crack and off-width destinations of California... Wah, J Tree blows, the Valley blows, Tuolumne blows... Climb other crags in California (that aren't in the high Sierra) and then reevaluate if these destinations really are "Terrible No Good Very Bad 'Classic' Areas."

What about J-tree do people not like? Genuinely curious as it rivals Indian Creek for my favorite single-pitch area.

Joshua tree is so spread out, its hard to get a lot of quality pitches of the a similar grade in. I like it, but it would not be in my top 10 places of trad climbing crags to visit.

Also, Rumney worst "classic" sport climbing area. Some really good routes but only a few on 1 cliff and very crowded.

J. Albers wrote: Pffft whatever. You don't have to be a "sport climber" to think that climbing crumbly sandstone and mud towers is a shit a$$ endeavor. I've climbed through plenty of choss on alpine and trad climbs for routes that I thought were classic, but I have zero desire to climb the Fishers (or go back to Garden of the Gods). "Classic" status is largely determined by your own metric value. By my standards, Tuolumne is super, mega, rockstar classic despite the fact that I have climbed many obscure, uncrowded and also mega classic granite domes elsewhere in the Southern Sierra. But that doesn't mean that I would dog reboot for thinking that Tuolumne is over-rated. Also, Eldo is a choss pile. There I said it too. Some good routes? Sure. Too much choss for "classic" status in my book? Yup. Even Yellow Wall is sub-classic in my book despite some good climbing and cool exposure. But I can certainly understand why others like it. To each his own.

I get it. I like clipping bolts and (sport or trad) climbing on good granite or limestone, they definitely have their place and are ton of fun, but the Fishers and other sandstone features are their own breed of classic. Yes still classic, just a different mindset.

Pretty much all of Washington,

Long approaches, everything is always wet, and all the locals suck.

But seriously, the first time I went to Wild Iris I hated it so much! I did not like pocket climbing, Everything was way to powerful to climb near my limit and it was a the end of a long trip anyway so I was super tired. But once I made myself return and learned the area and its style I fell in love. That has pretty much been the story for every place I did not like at first. Like others have said, you don't climb the fisher towers expecting to find splitter granite.

I have never been there but I have little interest in visiting Jtree. Just sounds too busy and like the kind of place you don't ever get as much climbing in as you want.

The same goes for Boulder, no interest in ever visiting or climbing there, probably because I don't want to fall in line and move there with every other climber.

Eric K wrote:Pretty much all of Washington, Long approaches, everything is always wet, and all the locals suck.

I'll bite. Western wa has the same weather as squamish, with less crowds and a more low-key atmosphere. Darrington and Stuart Range approaches are often long, Index approaches are short, WA pass has a little of both.

The only people who care about Eldo are Boulderites. The place I don't understand is Smith Rock. Historical significance aside, there's like half a dozen good sport routes below 5.11 and everything is runout and crimpy as shit. The place isn't that big to begin with. The lower gorge is cool but there's basalt columns all over the place (Trout, Vantage, Tieton, etc.). I like climbing there from time to time but I don't understand why people travel there from around the world.

Brian Scoggins wrote:My experience with Eldo has been that if you're not climbing 5.10 or harder, expect sketchy, bad rock everywhere, and an entire climbing community ready to call you worse than Hitler if you don't like it. Eldo is emblematic of the entire front range climbing scene: not bad per se, but an awful lot of people insist that being nearby and in large quantities is equivalent to truly world class. The crags at the periphery of the front range (Lumpy, Shelf, Vedauwoo) have better rock and better climbing. Eldo is just a shorter drive from downtown Boulder. I was not that impressed with Smith Rock. The holds seemed to come in two varieties: greasy, or in need of sika. I agree that the rock is scary-bad in Arches and the Fishers. That is sort of the allure. But there's better climbing rock for towers elsewhere in the desert.

I do agree with the attitude in Eldo. It can be a little elitist. And very old-school/stuffy. They have to debate about just the idea of replacing an old rusty quarter incher and then once they manage to decide to replace it they need to have endless debates about whether to move it 3 inches to the left or right. Lots of self-important people.

I also do agree with you that Lumpy, Vedauwoo, and Shelf are probably better climbing destinations.

jason.cre wrote:Eldo is bad. Its crowded. Full of gumbies. Sketchy choss. I would recommend not climbing there. Boulder Canyon is better and more worth your time.

Yes, but the attitude (and Gumbies) in Boulder canyon is even worse than in Eldo....

squamish ... stay away u yankees !!!

;)

When an area becomes "classic" it becomes crowded, and that is the one universal reason for me to dislike an area. One day at a particular area may suck balls because it is crowded, and another day at the same place will be stellar because there are no people. I once climbed in Eldo on a day where the weather started out marginal and improved later in the day, and my partner and I only saw eight other people all day, and most of them were hikers. (Of course, this was ONE day)

Remove the crowds, and one person's choss is another person's classic. Some like longer approaches to get away from it all, and others prefer to spend more time climbing than hiking. Some prefer slab, others overhang. Some want bomber pro all the time, some like needing to think and plan your placements and avoid bad rock (hello, Eldo). Some prefer routes that are spread out for some solace, and others prefer them to be close so they can knock off a large number of pitches quickly.

In addition to crowds, poison ivy, black flies, mosquitoes, shit on the trail and near the climbs, and sudden thunderstorms that make you bail just as you are starting the money pitch all detract from the classic experience, but that is just part of climbing outside, so I suck it up. (The shit I am referring to is from wild animals, not dogs or people. Seriously, if you are leaving your or your dog's shit on the trail, there is a special circle of hell waiting for you)

Jacob Smith wrote: there's like half a dozen good sport routes below 5.11

A lot of world class sport climbing destinations would fail that criteria.

Jacob Smith wrote:I don't understand why people travel there from around the world.

Maybe they are seeking the harder lines?

Indian creek, the diamond

J. Albers wrote: Pffft whatever. You don't have to be a "sport climber" to think that climbing crumbly sandstone and mud towers is a shit a$$ endeavor. I've climbed through plenty of choss on alpine and trad climbs for routes that I thought were classic, but I have zero desire to climb the Fishers (or go back to Garden of the Gods). "Classic" status is largely determined by your own metric value. By my standards, Tuolumne is super, mega, rockstar classic despite the fact that I have climbed many obscure, uncrowded and also mega classic granite domes elsewhere in the Southern Sierra. But that doesn't mean that I would dog reboot for thinking that Tuolumne is over-rated. Also, Eldo is a choss pile. There I said it too. Some good routes? Sure. Too much choss for "classic" status in my book? Yup. Even Yellow Wall is sub-classic in my book despite some good climbing and cool exposure. But I can certainly understand why others like it. To each his own.

Yellow wall is on the diamond. Also, it's ok to not like scary climbing, I hope it doesn't make u feel like less of a man.

Eric K wrote:Pretty much all of Washington, Long approaches, everything is always wet, and all the locals suck.

Yes it's true. Can only climb there between August 1st and August 5th. By September 1st, it'll have rained so much that a 6-inch thick fir tree might have sprouted from the ledge on top of Godzilla, and you'll have to walk 10 miles through the dripping forest back to your car while enduring verbal abuse from the angry locals.

In all seriousness, I moved out to Boston last fall and was excited about Rumney. I've been a little disappointed, especially with the crowds and some general agro-ness. Don't think it's worth going except on a weekday.

James Sledd wrote: Yes it's true. Can only climb there between August 1st and August 5th. By September 1st, it'll have rained so much that a 6-inch thick fir tree might have sprouted from the ledge on top of Godzilla, and you'll have to walk 10 miles through the dripping forest back to your car while enduring verbal abuse from the angry locals.

Don't forget the best part: your car will have been broken into.

tim wrote: Yellow wall is on the diamond. Also, it's ok to not like scary climbing, I hope it doesn't make u feel like less of a man.

Congratulations for catching my mistake. So yeah, I was referring to the Yellow Spur. That doesn't change my point in the slightest, but good for you for missing the forest for the trees. And no, thinking Eldo is a chossy mess doesn't make me feel like "less of a man". Then again maybe I just don't get it, because as we all know it takes a good old fashioned pair of testosterone laden big balls to climb scary trad like the big boys in Eldo (gigantic eye roll). I actually do enjoy "scary" climbing. In fact, two of my favorite places to climb are Tuolumne and the Southern Sierra, which are both packed with runout climbs. The big difference in my enjoyment simply comes from the fact that for the most part, when I climb in one of the later places, I don't have to worry about hollow rock all over the place and belay ledges covered in loose televisions waiting to eviscerate everyone below me. Big difference.

Brock B. wrote: Don't forget the best part: your car will have been broken into.

And you might be hit by a train.