Sexy Grandma Jtree 5 Alpine draws taken

Well hopefully this will help make you more responsible for the things you spend your money on then.

I have to say that if I found a route "equipped" I'd take the gear and if no-one had claimed it before I left I'd post a message here on MP. I certainly wouldn't see it as booty - regardless of the climbing ethics, that's a less than honorable thing to do, and it wouldn't sit right with me, I'd do this in the hope that if I made this mistake then a fellow climber would do the same for me.

I think UPGRADE35s initial post was an acceptable response. Some of the replies were, simply stated mean and cynical.

Chris Owen wrote:I have to say that if I found a route "equipped" I'd take the gear and if no-one had claimed it before I left I'd post a message here on MP. I certainly wouldn't see it as booty - regardless of the climbing ethics, that's a less than honorable thing to do, and it wouldn't sit right with me, I'd do this in the hope that if I made this mistake then a fellow climber would do the same for me. I think UPGRADE35s initial post was an acceptable response. Some of the replies were, simply stated mean and cynical.

You say mean and cynical, I say tough love.

mountainproject.com/v/booty…

UPGRADE35 wrote:One piece left on a route is booty, normally. A rope or the entire route quickdraws is somebody forgot their shit or projecting. It's sexy grandma... obviously we forgot the gear, it was nighttime ops, my second didn't climb and we forgot it was a sport route. It's a shame people are into taking gear that ain't theirs and then coming on mp to defend it likes it cool... "Booty!". It's a sad day climbers if everyone is seeing gear and thinking booty over making an effort to return gear. Hope you never space out and this happens to you. Leave your dog eat dog world in the city.

it's a shame that you feel your incompetence should be rewarded by people going out of their way to find you after they've cleaned up after you. you f'd up. learn to accept responsibility for your own mistakes. no one owes you a damn thing.

if they choose to find you and return it, that's an act of considerable kindness, and while noble, should never be expected.

Leaving them at the base seems like a pretty solid solution.

Sorry - I saw "sexy grandma" and thought this thread was something else... Carry on!

Haha. This is funny. First thing you bring up is karma, maybe karma was getting back at you! and on the other side maybe those who'd found the draws deserved the good karma. Either way you believe in karma, so have a great day and let by gone's be by gone's.

Friendly advice you should have rephrased how you asked
"If you took" should be "If you Found". and "Thats not right man, karma will hunt you down." Should have been "Would be greatly appreciated If returned." or something of the sort.

Stay positive and I believe gear will fall your way!

^^^ +1

Not too much to ask for a little decency on both sides of the aisle. Not to be involved in victim shaming.

At first glance this looks pretty cut and dry. You leave gear, it gets taken. My first instinct was to side with the crusty gear-pirates here. But: Bootying an inexplicably fully equipped route of a very accessible grade in a popular area without doing a quick round of the campsites in Hidden Valley just to ask around (or just leave a goddamn note on the board!) is just assholery. HVC is an awesome and mostly tight-knit climbing community that should be concerned with helping others out.

It would seem pretty clear to me that this wasn't someone just spacing out. What if there was an accident that required instant evac or bail until the next day to reclaim the gear? What if, as seems to be the case here, there was a new follower who forgot his nut tool or something, and the consensus was "don't worry man, we'll come back in the morning" Stuck (even if not actually stuck) or single cam/ nut? Cool. Anchor materials? Cool. Bail biner or draw? Definitely Cool. I wouldn't even make the effort to reach out here. $100+ worth of gear up the length of a route? This situation stinks.

Sorry for the loss OP. All the previous comments about responsibility for your own gear etc. do unfortunately hold some water but this seems like a pretty flagrant disrespect of the communal support that should be apparent in places like HVC.

We can go back and forth ad nauseum on booty ethics. Free gear is cool, but not at the cost of your own integrity. Show some class, people.

Mike Brady wrote:Leaving them at the base seems like a pretty solid solution.

Also this.

"HVC is an awesome and mostly tight-knit climbing community..."

LOL!

Hobo Greg wrote:If you left your gear, for ANY reason besides an injury or assisting with a rescue, then you made a climbing decision. Live with the consequences. If you truly valued your gear you wouldn't leave it around like that. Would you leave the keys in your car too? You didn't clean it on rap when you could have. Why feel bad for someone who didn't stop and think it through? Forgetting a single piece of gear is forgetting, forgetting multiple pieces is straight incompetence.

Yes, but we as climbers can NOT hide behind this placing responsibility on the gear-leaver as a means to justify what at the end of the day (REGARDLESS of booty ethics) is pretty much theft, however community-sanctioned it may be. We have some responsibility to use good judgement of our own to decide whether that gear is indeed abandoned and ours for the taking.

Perhaps it was not a booty theft but an ethical clean up.

Where are you going to leave your shit next??? I need some new stuff...

Adam Burch wrote:"HVC is an awesome and mostly tight-knit climbing community..." LOL!

That is a laugher. Even back in the day things weren't that tight. Sometimes people like to believe it was, but that was only for certain people in a certain crowd. There were some good folks, but always a fair share of less scrupulous types.

At first I thought this was a troll, until upgrade chimed in again, who I think is just naive, not a self righteous douche like some who have posted similar threads. Too bad you lost your stuff. Hope your future holds better experiences.

Roy Suggett wrote:Perhaps it was not a booty theft but an ethical clean up.

You can clean up all you like, but once you keep equipment that is not yours, it's theft. Especially when kept anonymously, If you want to make some "ethical" statement, leave them at the ranger station or better yet, have the courage to tell the offending party why you took their gear down and invite them over to pick it up.

I was not suggesting keeping the gear. Sorry I was not clear. Ethical WOULD mean turning the gear into the park. Thanks for the clarification.

I wouldn't go so far as to call this theft, but I would have probably left the draws at the base of thee climb. Then again I don't really like to climb on gear that I don't know the history of.
But when the OP says that he forgot to clean the route and he forgot it was a sport route, I mean holy shit. He probably shouldn't be climbing in the first place.

Thats incredible that some of you would call this a theft...

What kind of fantasy world to people live in??

'' sad day climbers taking other climbers gear and not even making an effort to find the owner. Hope this never happens to anyone else.''

too funny, buddy this happens to thousands of climbers a year

Don't teach a kid how to cover the base, just make the base bigger to accomodate the kid.