Ethics on: Replacing/adding fixed gear on routes

In Red Rock NV, there's a popular moderate route that has two bolts on the belay with some ratty looking webbing. No chains, no rap rings.

The next time I'm out I'd like to cut off all of the old webbing and install some chains and quick links (to attach said chains to bolts).

Was going to buy some thick ass chain from Home Depot and two beefy quick links and just put it up the next time I'm on the route. If I'm feeling super ambitious I'll even paint the chains so it blends into the rock.

My logic seems sound, do any of the village elders have anything to object to?

Just think, if every outdoor climber replaced just a single bolt/chain/etc in our climbing career, we'd have nice safe fixed hardware everywhere!

I'd think you're fine. Check with Desert Rock sports and see what they have to say though.

I'm on a phone and don't see a way to search the forum, but there is a sticky thread for bolts and anchors that need to be replaced in RR. Post up route into there and you'll get the follow up info you're looking for.

BryanOC wrote:If I'm feeling super ambitious I'll even paint the chains so it blends into the rock.

If you're not going to do this (it's not that hard),then don't bother. Chains are much easier to paint before they're installed.

BryanOC wrote:Just think, if every outdoor climber replaced just a single bolt/chain/etc in our climbing career, we'd have nice safe fixed hardware everywhere!

Safe hardware exists because of a tremendous amount of work by relatively few climbers. Donating to a local org that maintains hardware is a better idea, imo.

Have fun!

donate some webbing, something.. neon.

You could try posting in this thread to see if it gets their attention:

mountainproject.com/v/bad-b…

Daniel Winder wrote: If you're not going to do this (it's not that hard),then don't bother. Chains are much easier to paint before they're installed. Safe hardware exists because of a tremendous amount of work by relatively few climbers. Donating to a local org that maintains hardware is a better idea, imo. Have fun!

Don't bother what? Don't bother painting? Or don't bother at all and just leave what's there?

I have donated to local climbing orgs to replace bolts. Only $20, but hey, it's $20.

caughtinside wrote:Is it a belay? Or a rap station? There is a difference. If that is a belay, there is no reason for there to be tat on it. If it's a rap station, it should be equipped with rings of some sort. If there are no rings, my guess would be it's a belay that people have rapped from, leaving webbing and biners. Then the biners were taken by subsequent parties who didn't rap. Really not sure. You might find out first whether this is a route you're supposed to rap. Because if you install rap stations, people will rap. Which might not jive well with climbers coming up. Something to consider. If you don't need to rap to descend, I wouldn't add the chains.

It is a belay station that people also rap on. I believe that's why people in the past have left the webbing up there.

There is no walk off, you can either rap the way you came up, or walk to another climb and rap down another climb. No matter what, you're rapping directly onto a climbing line. Nothing wrong with this IMO. There's no other way off besides a base jump or helicopter.

FrankPS wrote:You could try posting in this thread to see if it gets their attention: mountainproject.com/v/bad-b…

Ah!! Thanks! It's there! Jonny Vegas, but not sure if we are talking about the same bolt/station.

It's the top of pitch 2 or 3. Two bolts, with some tat on there. No rings.

not sure if I'll have a chance to do it this season as red rock is already pretty hot. but next time I'm out there I hope to remember to put up some chains on that station.

Something is mentioned on the "bad bolts" thread, I'm not 100% sure if we're talking about the same station or not.