Talk to me about offsets...

I'm a relatively new trad climber, in fact, this is the first full season where I'd consider myself a leader at all. For the first time, I came across a 45 degree left to right crack where I felt I could have used an offset cam. In this instance, it likely would have been a .3/.4 x4.

Here are my questions:

1- do people only carry offsets on routes where they know they need them? Or can they be carried for 'just in case' scenarios. (As a new leader I pretty much take doubles of .2-3 every time anyway)

2. - if buying offsets, does it make sense to go for the entire set or is there a few sizes that seems most employed?

3 -It seems to me that if I'm on a route where I'm doubling my smaller cams, am I losing something by making those doubles offsets? (I.e. I can't place offsets In parallel cracks).

Any advice/experiences are appreciated.

I have been climbing with a few bd offset cams for a little over a year now. Typically I am climbing moderate multipitch granite routes in Little Cottonwood Canyon, Utah. I bring them with me on most routes and have them mixed in my double rack. I end up placing them a lot more than I expected when I purchased them. Originally thinking I would only use them for climbs that are thinner and a bit harder. (I have the 2 smallet sizes.) I use them much more than my small brass offset nuts. Seams like I use them in cracks that taper, pin scars, and other small cracks very often and it's not unusual that I use the two I have on most pitches. I highly recommend them for areas like LCC. When you can slide them in a crack where nothing else will go in you will be hooked. That being said I do think that they might lend themselves better to certain types of rock over others.

JRZane wrote:I'm a relatively new trad climber, in fact, this is the first full season where I'd consider myself a leader at all. For the first time, I came across a 45 degree left to right crack where I felt I could have used an offset cam. In this instance, it likely would have been a .3/.4 x4. Here are my questions: 1- do people only carry offsets on routes where they know they need them? Or can they be carried for 'just in case' scenarios. (As a new leader I pretty much take doubles of .2-3 every time anyway) 2. - if buying offsets, does it make sense to go for the entire set or is there a few sizes that seems most employed? 3 -It seems to me that if I'm on a route where I'm doubling my smaller cams, am I losing something by making those doubles offsets? (I.e. I can't place offsets In parallel cracks). Any advice/experiences are appreciated.

I have some. when I first got them I carried them a bit in Eldo. I could definitely find placements for them. The question was are they necessary? The answer I came up with is no, so now they are just resigned to my aid climbing rack...

I like offsets as my small doubles (or often triples in finger sizes), at least around New England. I generally carry the 4 or 5 smallest Metolius. 0/1 and 1/2 are the most used.

Just for clarification, when people are saying offsets aren't necessary, they aren't recommending putting in a "standard" set cam in uneven cracks (uneven lobe placement), but rather to make a move if needed and find a different location for the placement?

I carry the .1/.2, .2/.3, .3/.4... so the three smallest ones, in addition to my doubles(normal) in those sizes.
I find that in cracks/placements in those sizes it's more critical to have the correct size but bigger than that and I can generally use something else that'll work.
I'm also a bigger guy so I will sometimes double up(nest) micro cams if I feel the placement isn't the greatest.

1. I always carry them as my smaller doubles on granite as they place super well in flares and funky pin scars. I still carry tcu's/c3s as small doubles for most any other rock. I don't think they're crucial but they can certainly be nice to have.

2. I carry sizes equivalent to a purple/blue, blue/yellow , yellow/orange metolius or equivalent

Learn the basics first

Good info up above. Offset usefulness will be area dependent as some places tend to have a lot more flares and pin scars. I love them for most granite climbing as they almost always could find a home. I usually will carry the 3-4 smallest sizes. Up to .5 BD or Red Alien equivalent.

I mostly climb granite along with some basalt and I find myself using offsets more and my old BD stoppers less. I like the DMM offsets, though they can be a bit stubborn during cleaning.

T340 wrote:I mostly climb granite along with some basalt and I find myself using offsets more and my old BD stoppers less. I like the DMM offsets, though they can be a bit stubborn during cleaning.

If you are talking offset nuts, those are the bomb! and those I do carry regularly as part of my regular rack. Offset cams however, I find to be more of a specialty piece.

JRZane wrote:I'm a relatively new trad climber, in fact, this is the first full season where I'd consider myself a leader at all. For the first time, I came across a 45 degree left to right crack where I felt I could have used an offset cam. In this instance, it likely would have been a .3/.4 x4. Here are my questions: 1- do people only carry offsets on routes where they know they need them? Or can they be carried for 'just in case' scenarios. (As a new leader I pretty much take doubles of .2-3 every time anyway) 2. - if buying offsets, does it make sense to go for the entire set or is there a few sizes that seems most employed? 3 -It seems to me that if I'm on a route where I'm doubling my smaller cams, am I losing something by making those doubles offsets? (I.e. I can't place offsets In parallel cracks). Any advice/experiences are appreciated.

1) Typically I choose to add offsets to the rack based on the area I am climbing in. I moved to California two years ago and the Sierras/Yosemite seem to eat them up, but I spent 7 years climbing in the desert southwest and rarely considered them. Your mileage may vary, but most people consider them specialty pieces. I think they are becoming more mainstream now that Metolius and BD both offer offsets.

2) I bought a 1/2 and a 2/3 from Metolius. Partially due to cost and having a full rack alreadu, partially due to those seeming like the best sizes for the climbing I was doing. Having spent a few more days on granite this year than in the past I might add the larger sizes to my rack, but it is unlikely I'll find a spot for the smaller ones.

3) Possibly, again this comes down to the area you are climbing in. These days I find myself using them more and more. That is probably because I stopped climbing desert splitters and keep running into pinscars and weird flakes.

They are useful, they certainly aren't mandatory.

I think gear is rock-dependent: I thought old school hexes and Chouinard stoppers were perfect in Yosemite (long before offsets of any type were available in anything bigger than a 5 RP), my newer non-drilled angle end hexes and DMM Wallnuts are perfect in New Hampshire and Maine granite, last year I discovered DMM Offset nuts, and I think they are the most secure piece I've ever placed (in Leavenworth WA). It was really the discovery of Offset nuts that opened my mind to offset cams: Cams are less location dependent than passive hardware, and people kept raving about them for aid. So I bought some, and so far so good. I've only climbed in the desert a few times, and it seems offsets of any kind wouldn't be that useful there; the more worn & weathered the stone, the more radical the offset that is useful. Hope that helps.

I have a pard who primarily rocks offset cams as his finger pieces. It works for him, and if you are used to 'em you will probably find those placements. Still, not the strongest cam choice for a more parallel style crack.

I have been thankful for offset cams a few times, but have never gotten more than a couple for my own rack. And I hardly bring those out. When they are needed, they are really needed, but I just don't find that to usually be the case where I climb.

The offset nuts, however, I rack every time. Besides a few BD and Wild Country booty nuts I have, I find there really is no reason to use conventional stoppers over offset.

Stagg54 wrote: If you are talking offset nuts, those are the bomb! and those I do carry regularly as part of my regular rack. Offset cams however, I find to be more of a specialty piece.

Aww hell. So much for my reading comprehension skills!

I use the DMM offset nuts reference above, all of the alloy sizes and the larger brass ones. On granite I find them very versatile, they do handle the slight flares when a normal cam would not work.

There aren't enough flaring placements for me to justify carrying a set of offset cams on the moderate grades of granite I climb as there are few pin scars. If you're climbing former aid lines free that could be a different story.

Colonel Mustard wrote: I find there really is no reason to use conventional stoppers over offset.

Right on, I don't leave the ground without my DMM offsets. I have gotten so used to them that if I am using someone else's rack I have to bring mine along. The offsets work as well or better in almost all situations.

Offset nuts, every time. Offset cams usually just for aid.