Tips for a rope cut by rock fall during rap.

Okay here's the situation. Last night we were doing a double rope rappel with two 70M ropes when about 160' into the rap a decently large size block released off the wall and destroyed one of the lines. The rope wasn't cut all the way through but the entire sheath was severed. Unfortunately the line that was damaged was the side where if it had cut all the way the EDK would NOT have be able to prevent the rope from zipping through the chains to the stopper knot putting the person on rappel on the deck. If the side with the pull side had been cut then the EDK would have jammed in the chains allowing a single rope rap back to safety but as our luck would have it it was the non pull side of the rope that was damaged. I've attached a horrible drawing to show what I'm trying to explain. Anyway the person on rappel was too far down the lines to be able to get back to the first pitch chains and just rig another rap. Does anyone have good tips for how to escape this situation? Prussic two alpine butterfly knots on either side of the failure attached with a carabiner to isolate the damage is the only thing that comes to mind. (only this would prevent you from being able to retrieve you rope after). Trying to figure out the best way to escape this situation say if the rope had been completely cut. Please offer any advice.

Luckily the damaged rope held allowing us to get to a spot where we could down climb third class terrain back to the ground. Kinda sketch though not going to lie.

Hmm I'm not sure how you could isolate the cut AND be able to pull the rope for the next rap. Your idea to use prusiks and alpine butterflies would work, but it could be simplified I think. Why not tie a single alpine butterfly with the cut isolated in the loop? It would at least save you a runner or two. I'll have to think about how to retrieve the ropes after you've gotten to the next rap station though.

Yeah, I'd use a single alpine butterfly to isolate the cut, then you get the fun job of passing the knot on a rap. If you still have someone at the anchor waiting to rappel, you can continue the rap and then have them switch the EDK to the other side of the anchor and rap the other line, with a biner block on the cut side. If not, you might be in for a fun bit of prussiking up the rope to the anchor to re-rig it yourself. Have fun with that.

EDIT: Also, o_0 for the situation, hope to never be in that one myself. Glad it didn't cut you loose.

BrokenChairs wrote: The rope wasn't cut all the way through but the entire sheath was severed. Unfortunately the line that was damaged was the side where if it had cut all the way the EDK would NOT have be able to prevent the rope from zipping through the chains to the stopper knot putting the person on rappel on the deck.

Wow! Anything truly can happen while climbing. Super happy everyone is OK.

From the description is sounds like you were doing a lower angle rap? I guess I would have tried to get the person off rappel in a safe spot, slide some gear down on the rope if they don't have any so they could construct an anchor, retrieve the busted rope and tie it off. Now everyone has to rig their rap for preparation to pass a knot which has its own dangers.

I don't know, what kind of terrain are we talking about and what gear did you have?

Rick Blair wrote: Wow! Anything truly can happen while climbing. Super happy everyone is OK. From the description is sounds like you were doing a lower angle rap? I guess I would have tried to get the person off rappel in a safe spot, slide some gear down on the rope if they don't have any so they could construct an anchor, retrieve the busted rope and tie it off. Now everyone has to rig their rap for preparation to pass a knot which has its own dangers. I don't know, what kind of terrain are we talking about and what gear did you have?

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/bettys-altered-elbow/105741647

We were heading down from the top of P2 and were about 50-60' below the anchors of P1 when the block came down. Yes it was lower angle terrain but there were no gear options as it was slabby slabitha. Maybe a single bolt. Rack: TCU's, fingers, and QD's/slings.

Simplest solution is similar to what Greg noted:

1) Isolate the damage so that the damaged section is inside the bight of a butterfly knot.

2) Move the joining knot of the rappel ropes (your EDK in this case) to the same side as the damaged rope.

3) Rappel on the single strand of rope opposite the EDK knot block.

Note: The knot block can (and ideally should) be backed up by tying an overhand on a bight just below the EDK and clipping it to the rappel strand with a carabiner.

Your damaged rope is now effectively a tag line/pull cord. The down side is that if your rope gets stuck, you're left with the damaged rope instead of the good rope.

BrokenChairs wrote:Okay here's the situation. Last night we were doing a double rope rappel with two 70M ropes when about 160' into the rap a decently large size block released off the wall and destroyed one of the lines. The rope wasn't cut all the way through but the entire sheath was severed.

Interestingly enough, I had an identical thing happen to me. Sheath was completely destroyed and ~20% core damage. The actual rock fell right between my legs. Luckily I heard it move, looked up and reacted in time otherwise I would have broken my legs badly. The rockfall was caused by movement of the rappel rope.

This was about 5 years ago...

Take 4 ropes and do a double double rope rappel so you have a backup encase one set of ropes is cut.

Redundancy...

Realistically this is just a risk you take when you climb. I have only had 1 rope get cut while after rappelling down and trying to pull it. We climbed back up the next day and found a small cut in the sheath. The core was untouched and I still use it for rappelling sometimes with some tap on it to protect the damaged sheath. I wouldn't lead on it though.

If someone was still at the anchors, you could have the rappeler go in direct (low angle plus decent bolt might be less risky than rolling the dice with the damaged rope) and then re-rig using the Reepschnur method (single role rappel) with the undamaged rope. You could then join the two halves of the damaged rope as a pull cord where the knot a) didn't have to be passed, and b) wasn't part of the safety system (other than getting the ropes down after the rap).

If the rappeler was on the rope BELOW the damage when it happened and they're still alive, then obviously the rope wasn't cut too severely i.e. it was still up to the task of holding (half) the climber's weight. So in reality there isn't a real problem. You'll get down safely, have a strong drink to relax afterwards. Then make a nice rope rug and go buy a new rope. No biggie.

On decents I try to make sure both climbers have some gear and runners for the just in case scenerio.

I would have found the first suitable place to set a new rapel either gear or a single bolt. It looks to me that gear and bolts were both available from the pictures of the route. You might have had to go sideways a bit to get a good gear belay and I would likely have taken the next bolt on the way down to get off the damages rope as quickly as possible. Next, the second rapeller would re-rig the rapel so that the damaged rope was a pull line with a block to prevent the undamaged rope from pulling down.

After getting both climbers to this impromptu rapel point I would start doing single rope rapels leaving gear as necessary to get down (if the damaged rope is unsuitable as a pull line).

Once upon a time, I had a band new rope cut by a rock in a similar circumstance; literally the first time we used it. It was our only rope and it took a while to get down.

2 skills

- reascending a rope on rappel

- tying off a coreshot and passing a knot on rappel

if yr below the damage when the rock fall happened and you can communicate with a partner still at the anchor, you can get them to throw on a prussik on the undamaged line and fix it to the anchors

otherwise if yr by yourself and below the damage, praying and starting to believe in god might help

;)

climber pat wrote:On decents I try to make sure both climbers have some gear and runners for the just in case scenerio. I would have found the first suitable place to set a new rapel either gear or a single bolt. It looks to me that gear and bolts were both available from the pictures of the route. You might have had to go sideways a bit to get a good gear belay and I would likely have taken the next bolt on the way down to get off the damages rope as quickly as possible. Next, the second rapeller would re-rig the rapel so that the damaged rope was a pull line with a block to prevent the undamaged rope from pulling down. After getting both climbers to this impromptu rapel point I would start doing single rope rapels leaving gear as necessary to get down (if the damaged rope is unsuitable as a pull line). Once upon a time, I had a band new rope cut by a rock in a similar circumstance; literally the first time we used it. It was our only rope and it took a while to get down.

Oh, my adnoids! Spell check please...!?
Decent? Or did you mean Descent?
rappel
scenario
rappeller...
Oh, i am just bitching, but...really
and btw, to the OP, tie it off, learn to pass a knot, and be safe. It is always better, always wiser, to leave gear, including rope, behind. Could you have built a belay, tied a single strand to the ground or safe spot? Come back the following day with another rope and retrieved the gear? Life is way more precious than a core shot rope!
I often carry a small bundle of nuts i can leave behind. Be surprised what you can build with 3 nuts and a piece of webbing.
And always always always carry a prussic. I leave it on, even on single pitch sport. Never know when it will come in handy!
snarf

A cut sheath is a very dangerous situation.

youtube.com/watch?v=CtURlhP…

bearbreeder wrote:... if yr below the damage when the rock fall happened and you can communicate with a partner still at the anchor, you can get them to throw on a prussik on the undamaged line and fix it to the anchors ...

Aye ... and attach prussik or similar below the rope-joining knot if practical.

Derek DeBruin wrote:Simplest solution is similar to what Greg noted: 1) Isolate the damage so that the damaged section is inside the bight of a butterfly knot. 2) Move the joining knot of the rappel ropes (your EDK in this case) to the same side as the damaged rope. 3) Rappel on the single strand of rope opposite the EDK knot block. Note: The knot block can (and ideally should) be backed up by tying an overhand on a bight just below the EDK and clipping it to the rappel strand with a carabiner. Your damaged rope is now effectively a tag line/pull cord. The down side is that if your rope gets stuck, you're left with the damaged rope instead of the good rope.

This is close but needs correcting. You MUST back up a rapshneer single line rap at the anchor. This is an advanced technique and messing up WILL kill you. I use this method of rapping all the time but we've lost good climbers to mistakes with this (a death on serenity crack a few years ago comes to mind) Look up this technique and practice it before trying in the wild.

Not sure what people are talking about with passing a knot when using two lines. Super easy when rapping a single line but with two lines running freely through the anchor, you're looking at a lot of issues of the rap is vertical or overhanging. It can be done, but I can't imagine doing this when a biner block is so much easier.

kevin deweese wrote: This is close but needs correcting. You MUST back up a rapshneer single line rap at the anchor. This is an advanced technique and messing up WILL kill you. I use this method of rapping all the time but we've lost good climbers to mistakes with this (a death on serenity crack a few years ago comes to mind) Look up this technique and practice it before trying in the wild. Not sure what people are talking about with passing a knot when using two lines. Super easy when rapping a single line but with two lines running freely through the anchor, you're looking at a lot of issues of the rap is vertical or overhanging. It can be done, but I can't imagine doing this when a biner block is so much easier.

passing the knot on 2 lines when vertical or overhanging is fine with enough practice

you may need to do this if the rockfall damaged the rope below you while yr already mid rap ...

that or re-ascend to the anchors

;)

bearbreeder wrote: passing the knot on 2 lines when vertical or overhanging is fine with enough practice ;)

Do give us the technique for passing the knot in one of two strands while rapping both strands so we can practice.

kevin deweese wrote: Do give us the technique for passing the knot in one of two strands while rapping both strands so we can practice.

How is it any different with a single rope. You stop above the knot. Throw a prusick on. weight it. Move your belay device below the knot. pull the slack out. throw an a foot prusick to unweight the waist prusick. Remove it and keep going.

Am I missing something?

How does that change if your on one rope or two ropes?

kevin deweese wrote: Do give us the technique for passing the knot in one of two strands while rapping both strands so we can practice.

It doesnt change with double strand ...

Its basically the same as single strand except you treat both strands as one

Any good self rescue book will show you the sequence

And any good self rescue course will show you how to do it on 2 strands

As to vertical or overhanging, all that means is you need to judge when to set the friction knot more carefully, and you may need to step up on a sling to take it off .... A releasable hitch is also useful on the friction knot ...

ANYONE who actually practices this would know these things ...

;)

Stagg54 wrote: How is it any different with a single rope. You stop above the knot. Throw a prusick on. weight it. Move your belay device below the knot. pull the slack out. throw an a foot prusick to unweight the waist prusick. Remove it and keep going. Am I missing something? How does that change if your on one rope or two ropes?

Key point you forgot to add is you MUST tie in directly to the rope with a figure eight on a bight clipped to your harness via a locking biner. Never start manipulating your belay without first tying in to the rope. That way, if you screw something up you dont die. I absolutely would not rely on just a single prusick and nothing else to keep you off the deck without a backup.

This is what I do. Regardless if you're passing a knot in one strand or both, the technique is the same. Rap down to the knot. Pull up some slack and tie a figure eight on a bight and attach it to your harness. Prusick in so you can unweight the device. Transfer the device to immediately below the knot and lock it off. Then instead of using another prusick to stand on to unweight the upper one, just grab the rope and wrap it around your foot a few times and stand up. That will give you enough leverage to unweight the top prusick.