Protein for older climbers

Just a drive-by posting here (work is kicking my %#s), but I've followed the protein issue for several years and the sum of my readings tells me a few things.

1. Most people can't utilize more than about 30g protein from a meal. So that 12oz sirloin you just took off the grill? Cut it in half, eat the rest later. That said, older folks (>40yo)seem to benefit from up to 40g in the period right before/after the workout, whereas those in their 20s don't get additional benefits above about 20g in that same timeframe. ergo-log.com/older-strength…

That link is one example, but many others show similar results, that around 30-40g in a meal is about top end of the ideal range.

2. Given #1 above, split your protein intake into meals/snacks about every 3hrs. ergo-log.com/portion-of-pro…

3. Total intake requirement varies with training load, but the sweet spot appears to be in the range of 1-2g/kg of bodyweight. I find it difficult to get more than about 100g/day and that's with the use of at least one protein shake daily. I eat a calorie split that is probably close to the "Zone" diet 40/30/30, but not by design. I just found that heavier doses of fat and protein work better for me than a diet heavy in carbs. Mine is probably 40% fat, and 30% protein and carbs.

4. Timing is important. Ideally, take your protein shake a short time before the training session starts - ergo-log.com/wheypreorpost.…
or split it into half before/half after. Personally, I have ~ 5g BCAAs just before, and a 25g protein whey shake immediately after, then drive home and cook a real meal with another ~20g of slower proteins (typically fish) and eat it about an hour after ending the workout.

5. Concerns about excessive protein intake and resultant effects on kidneys may be overblown. ergo-log.com/high-protein-d…

I'm not geriatric yet, but I'm not a youngster at 43. My avg intake is about 70-100g/day, which falls right in the 1-1.5g/kg range. I still train and climb reasonably hard, and have found that the biggest predictor of how well I recover and develop is sleep quality and duration. Diet is a big part of the equation, but sleep is king for me.

Beating a dead horse here I know, because I mention it in these forums often, but the ergolog site has many study links/summaries on these kind of isses. I have no affiliation with these folks, but recommend the site to people all the time, as I've found it very useful.

Will, I am interested to hear your thoughts on this leangains.com/2010/10/top-t…

specifically #5 which seems to debunk a poorly run study that concluded you could only absorb 30g of protein from a meal

Joe Coover wrote: Every other post on here is suggesting much more than 1.2gm/kg. First Jake was 1gm/lb, than Jer suggested eating 60gm in one meal (which if you look at my references, they actually suggest more than 30gm is not helpful and suggested spreading it across three as you suggested in OP), cameron 1gm/lb etc. Just trying to show that many are incorrectly stating how much protein elderly or those in athletics need.

Thanks of clearing up. I read the studies the same way. No evidence of much benefit beyond 1.2-maybe a little extra gm/kg more or less.

Jer wrote:Will, I am interested to hear your thoughts on this leangains.com/2010/10/top-t… specifically #5 which seems to debunk a poorly run study that concluded you could only absorb 30g of protein from a meal

I'll try to look at the leangains link tonight (after training, of course. It's weight room day, yay!)

I've seen studies that support the 30g max stance, and others that counter it.

Here's one study that indicates 90g in a meal doesn't stimulate protein synthesis any more than 30g in a meal:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/196…

And a couple others that indicates that the 30g max stance is wrong, because the past studies that showed this didn't account for decreased protein breakdown (they only accounted for synthesis):

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/232…
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/265…

As a practical matter, I rarely want to eat more than about 30g in a meal. It makes me uncomfortably full, sometimes to the point of nausea, and adds calories that I would need to cut out somewhere else to maintain bodyweight.

Will S wrote: Here's one study that indicates 90g in a meal doesn't stimulate protein synthesis any more than 30g in a meal: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/196…

So does exercise not stimulate protein synthesis? Because the subjects of the study basically did nothing prior to and during the study (I also wonder what their overall calorie intake is). So at best this creates a baseline recommendation, but is next to worthless for athletes. FWIW, the rock consumes ~500g/day on a 5k calorie/day diet & he doesn't even weigh twice as much as most male climbers.

After a little more reading, I don't think the science is where it needs to be to make definitive statements about things like "30g in a meal, max".

One of the links I added above addressed that most studies were looking at synthesis, but not accounting for preventing breakdown when making their "30g max" claims, and that the useful amount when you did account for preventing breakdown was quite a bit higher.

Similarly, I don't think you can tell the whole story without getting into the hormonal aspects, and when you attempt to account for all of the factors (hormones, mechanical breakdown stimulus, available protein/AAs) you start getting into science that is hard to test/research because of the multiple variables.

Jer's angle seems mostly about the timeframe that AA are circulating, duration/timing of digestion, etc. But just having aminos circulating doesn't necessarily mean the other conditions are in place for muscle repair/building...that's what I mean by the hormonal aspects, having that HGH/IGF/test cascade while also having the AAs circulating.

Studies that have looked at that "hormonal cascade", IIRC, have shown a fairly short (by comparison to the digestion timeframes) window where they peak well above baseline levels and then subside. So if you eat 150g of protein in a sitting and are still digesting it 5 hours later, I'd guess that the hormones needed to make use of it have long since peaked and dissipated. Or maybe not.