Rappelling death on Goat Wall

komonews.com/news/local/sea…

I think this is fourth or fifth fatal rappelling accident in Washington in the last 2 years. We've lost too many people from our community, please stay safe.

My heartfelt condolences to Ryan's climbing partners, family, and friends.

wow, how unfortunate.

im interested in knowing more about the knot that came undone.

Jake wander wrote:wow, how unfortunate. im interested in knowing more about the knot that came undone.

Yes, this.

I'd speculate that this happened on Prime Rib , considering that other climbers arrived within 90 minutes on a Tuesday. You only need a single 60m to rappel the route, so I doubt that the knot failure referenced in the article was a knot joining two rappel ropes. Sounds like he may have not knotted the ends of the rope.

Rest easy, Ryan. I don't always use a rappel backup, but I ALWAYS knot the rope ends on multipitch rappels. This is a reminder to us all to check and double check our systems. Another life cut way too short.

EDIT: Better article in another comment reveals that my analysis was incorrect.

Amen for knots at end of rope. Heartfelt condolences to friends and family of the climber.

Knot coming undone is certainly not one of the more common forms of rappelling accidents.

Even the 'bad knots' generally hold body weight. Flat figure 8 would be my guess. It does sound a bit bizarre.

Nick Sweeney wrote:Sounds like he may have not knotted the ends of the rope. Rest easy, Ryan. I don't always use a rappel backup, but I ALWAYS knot the rope ends on multipitch rappels. This is a reminder to us all to check and double check our systems. Another life cut way too short.

Sounds like a tangent. The other climbers present lost their rope. So this scenario is unlikely. (except maybe only on end was knotted)

another article i read said he fell 5m into the rappel, so that would rule out rapping off end of a rope, also the rope/s went with him down to the bottom.

maybe only threaded one side of his rappel device?

or maybe accidentally did the figgur 8 version of edk?

methowvalleynews.com/2016/0…

better article.

“The team’s rappel consisted of a twin rope rappel which entailed tying the ends of two identical ropes together with a backed up figure eight knot. One of the ropes is then threaded through the anchor and a full-length double rope rappel is achieved,” Brown said in the press release. “This provides a much faster descent as they end up rappelling a full rope length of 70 meters per rappel station.”

So it was a failure of the knot joining two ropes. So sad and easily avoidable.

previuos raps were done by joing the two ropes with a woven figure 8,

then the deceased took over, i speculate he tried to do the same knot but did the figure 8 EDK instead, and it rolled.

sounds like a heartbreaking scenario to be in. trapped on that ledge with no rope while your buddy is dying down below.

Edited to remove speculation.

1) Double-rope rap, failure of the joining knot. The other article stated they were using a backed-up figure-eight, rather than a flat overhand/EDK. This is one reason to consider using a double-fisherman's knot, which is easier to inspect. The flat figure-eight resembles other knots we use regularly and safely (EDK, redoubled figure 8 and figure 8 on a bight) which may make it harder to detect if tied accidentally.

Most likely scenario is the first, probably trying to do fewer raps. Fatal accidents on Infinite Bliss, Liberty Bell, and Skaha within the last 2 years were all rappelling-related. A lowering accident at Little Si (off the end of the rope) also left a climber with a permanent disabling spinal injury. These are mistakes we are all vulnerable too, especially when tired or fatigued. The best way to prevent them is to be systematic and set up your rappel the same way every time.

My heart goes out to his partners, those 90 minutes at the anchor must have felt like eternity

christoph benells wrote: previuos raps were done by joing the two ropes with a woven figure 8, then the deceased took over, i speculate he tried to do the same knot but did the figure 8 EDK instead, and it rolled.

It's uncommon (but possible for a variety of reasons) to re-tie the knot at every anchor. The knot may have been mis-tied from the start, and after several raps it finally rolled enough to fail. A good reason to inspect the knot--along with the rest of your setup--at every anchor on a multi pitch rappel.

Again, this is the sort of accident that we are ALL susceptible to.

When I first started climbing I rapped on a double rope tied exactly as his was tied. The party in front of us at the rap station had set it up and offered just use our rope. I didn't like the way the knot looked and asked what kind of knot is that? He said figure 8 and at the time that meant bomber to me even thought something looked off. He had 18-20 inch tail s It was a hanging rappel . I was ignorant. I feel lucky .

The Methow Vly News reported: Erps became fatigued from leading many of the pitches and then managing ropes on the rappel, Brown said. At the second-to-last anchor, Kautz took over and rigged the rappel at about 3:30 p.m., Brown said.

Jackson and Erps told sheriff’s deputies they trusted Kautz to rig the rappel because he had “instructed this sort of thing with Outward Bound.” Jackson was in position to see Kautz put himself on belay then pull down and check the function of the rappel device with a personal arrest system still in place, Brown’s release said.

Jackson watched as Kautz began his rappel. He had rappelled about 5 meters when Jackson and Erps said they heard a loud snap and Kautz and the rope fell.

I don't know the route nor the cliff, but the above (in bold) is correct, it would indicate that this was the last of several rappels that the team had made. Does anybody know if this the first double-rope rap done? (i.e. Were the other raps all single-rope and now they decided to put 2 ropes together to eliminate one rap?)

One does not normally untie and re-tie the rope at each station, so if double rope raps had been done above, then this would not have been the first time the knot took weight.

You can rappel the whole route with a single 60. The article above says that they were using two ropes to make the rappels go quicker.

christoph benells wrote:previuos raps were done by joing the two ropes with a woven figure 8, then the deceased took over, i speculate he tried to do the same knot but did the figure 8 EDK instead, and it rolled. sounds like a heartbreaking scenario to be in. trapped on that ledge with no rope while your buddy is dying down below.

I saw this and had to find out for myself, I had no idea a European Death Knot could roll, but check this out! Scary stuff, makes me reconsider EVER using it again. So if Ryan Kautz used a backed up figure 8, I am still not clear how that could fail......but after watching this video I definitely see how a EDK could fail, granted the rope is wet.

youtube.com/watch?v=qONWJXM…

BobGray wrote: I saw this and had to find out for myself, I had no idea a European Death Knot could roll, but check this out! Scary stuff, makes me reconsider EVER using it again. So if Ryan Kautz used a backed up figure 8, I am still not clear how that could fail......but after watching this video I definitely see how a EDK could fail, granted the rope is wet.

they have the same videos with a dry rope too, if youre worried about that impacting the results.

i wish theyd specify the load that its rolling/failing at. if its 10000 lbs i dont really care.

^^^ The EDK is a perfectly safe knot.

Look up the force required to make the EDK roll. The flat figure 8 rolls more easily.

I saw this and had to find out for myself, I had no idea a European Death Knot could roll, but check this out! Scary stuff, makes me reconsider EVER using it again. So if Ryan Kautz used a backed up figure 8, I am still not clear how that could fail......but after watching this video I definitely see how a EDK could fail, granted the rope is wet.

Dude unless you are rappelling with five one ton boulders strapped to your harness that knot is not going to roll. Look at the rope fray at the end...

Video above of slipping EDK is maybe interesting, but without knowing the load it's not much use. Rapping is a very low-force activity, which is the only reason why any of us use the EDK. Low force, long tails - lots of margin.

But I'd still like to know the load in the vid.