Gym fail.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=wfvNR…

This was posted on a few news sites. I don't understand this gym's TR setup. And the belayer is not safe either. Any thoughts on how this TR was set up? Like why she swung so far from the wall?

My theory is that the belayer has hold of a rope still clipped through draws, she is on the end that comes off an overhead belay for an overhanging sport route, trying to top rope it. At least the guy hung on to her.

I believe this video has been posted here before.

That's not a TR wall. There are only draws hanging on it (no ropes). To set up a traditional TR on this wall would surely result in a major swing as illustrated in the video.

It appears that someone lead the route, then this woman TRed it. This is fine to do if you TR through the side of the rope with the draws, unclipping as you go. However, it is clear this party did it the other way. Uninformed patrons, careless bystanders and gymstaff are all to blame here.

One caveat. If you TR a lead route, make sure the leader went all the way to the top and clipped both anchor draws. There have been stories of people TRing routes, unclipping as they go, only to find they suddenly unclipped the single draw the rope was running through (unintentional free solo). Also, learn from this video and climb through the draws.

I agree with the other posters -- this is somebody TRing a climb that had previously been lead, on an overhanging wall, and they should have been following (climbing and unclipping as they went) rather than TRing.

Disagree about climbing and unclipping. She shouldn't have climbed any way but as a lead. With that much swing, there's a big overhang somewhere, so she'd swing out in space farther than a normal lead fall would send her, with the belay coming the wrong direction.

Think maybe they had a staff meeting after this? :-)

Old lady H wrote:Disagree about climbing and unclipping. She shouldn't have climbed any way but as a lead. With that much swing, there's a big overhang somewhere, so she'd swing out in space farther than a normal lead fall would send her, with the belay coming the wrong direction. Think maybe they had a staff meeting after this? :-)

I don't follow you here.
TR'ing while unclipping would work just fine. Need to make sure there are two clips at the anchor.
Worst case scenario, she falls, hangs too far from the wall to get back on and cannot boink (which I will guarantee) so she lowers to the ground. Probably a good idea to let her oscillations die down before starting to lower and to watch out for dropping her on unsuspecting pedestrians away from the wall.

Honestly, the route was way too hard for her.

Mark E Dixon wrote: I don't follow you here. TR'ing while unclipping would work just fine. Need to make sure there are two clips at the anchor. Worst case scenario, she falls, hangs too far from the wall to get back on and cannot boink (which I will guarantee) so she lowers to the ground. Probably a good idea to let her oscillations die down before starting to lower and to watch out for dropping her on unsuspecting pedestrians away from the wall. Honestly, the route was way too hard for her.

So, leading, when she goes from vertical to overhanging, the rope is below, and she just has a one clip length lead fall. Unclipping, she possibly has more rope out, reaching above her to unclip, and is also falling from a spot farther along the slope, with a worse angle for a fall. If the belayer had any slack allowed, she could be close to twice the rope on her side from the clip holding her, than if she was leading.

I watched some guys practicing lead fall catches in our gym, and it was a pretty dramatic difference between "blowing" one clip, and skipping one then "blowing". It was on an arch, and both flew quite a ways! Fun, when planned!

Old lady H wrote: So, leading, when she goes from vertical to overhanging, the rope is below, and she just has a one clip length lead fall. Unclipping, she possibly has more rope out, reaching above her to unclip, and is also falling from a spot farther along the slope, with a worse angle for a fall. If the belayer had any slack allowed, she could be close to twice the rope on her side from the clip holding her, than if she was leading. I watched some guys practicing lead fall catches in our gym, and it was a pretty dramatic difference between "blowing" one clip, and skipping one then "blowing". It was on an arch, and both flew quite a ways! Fun, when planned!

She's on tope rope, reaching high to unclip adds zero slack to the system

Old lady H wrote:Disagree about climbing and unclipping. She shouldn't have climbed any way but as a lead. With that much swing, there's a big overhang somewhere, so she'd swing out in space farther than a normal lead fall would send her, with the belay coming the wrong direction. Think maybe they had a staff meeting after this? :-)

That's some interesting math your are doing. A lead fall swings the leader down and into the wall, a follower fall would swing down and away from the wall. But, a leader will almost always have more slack.

Sure, unclipping draws on the way up will introduce some slack into the system, especially where the route transitions from the vertical to overhanging, for example. This could be an issue when close to the ground. But, with typical gym standards, bolt spacing is not more than five or six feet (probably less). So, after unclipping, the new high draw become the new pendi point. A fall would cause a swing into space provided there is no obstacles at this point.

They fucked up in that video.

Sorry, I'm doing a bad job, here. Basically, I was just trying to point out that a second following on an overhang (traverse, too), on a top belay, faces a bigger swing than the leader did. In a gym, this could be the difference between just banging into the wall with a hip, versus having enough rope length to get your legs out and snapping an ankle.

And to clarify, my friends practicing the falls were in a gym.

Old lady H wrote:a second following on an overhang (traverse, too), on a top belay, faces a bigger swing than the leader did. In a gym, this could be the difference between just banging into the wall with a hip, versus having enough rope length to get your legs out and snapping an ankle.

This seems dependent on how close the next piece of protection is. In a gym, bolts tend to be ridiculously close together minimizing swing in a typical (climber follows, unclipping their rope from protection as they ascend) TR scenario.

This is awesome! Darwinism at it's best.

The belayer is clipped into the climbers end, climber tied into belayers end. In the gym with the steep overhang a toprope can be set up with a mussy hook part way up the wall. This will to prevent the climber having this crazy swing. Climber takes rope off of mussy hook as climber passes it and keeps going. The staff member of the gym saw this and this is why he comes over. Unfortunately the bad thing happened. No.

Video has been removed :(

Nick Drake wrote:Video has been removed :(

Still available on Rock and Ice as a weekend whipper from a year ago.

I'm guessing this is the one

I understand that she must have been on the wrong end of the rope.

But this belay looks so weird. Why does the belayer's side of the rope seem so bereft of quickdraws? Did he unclip some on the way down? And why is he standing at such an odd angle to the climb? I dunno, just a cluster bleep around.

James Dudley wrote: I'm guessing this is the one

Yup that would be vertical world in Seattle. It's a BIG roof out to the end of that lead wall as you can imagine. It's lucky she didn't nail someone, I change out of my shoes right where she swung.

Mistake 1-Don't get in over your head. One look at her and that overhang would be all I needed to see. Her belayer isn't the sharpest pencil in the box.

What makes it worse is that the girl encouraging her in the vid seems to be an employee behind the desk.... Wow...

Edit: what looks like a desk is circular cubby storage.... The overhang on that route is huge....
verticalworld.com

Jake Jones wrote:She was climbing an overhanging route on the climber's side of the rope- presumably after it was led.

I'm pretty sure you meant to say "on the belayer's side of the rope," but other than that, your point is right on the money. Climbing on the "following" side would have avoided the crash.

JL