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La Sportiva Pythons equivalent??

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: Thank you Mr. Obvious. Here's link to my post , R&R did a fabulous job retaining the shape of the shoe. There's nothing a resoler can do to w/ the softened sole. Here's my question to you, have you ever micro edged on 5.13+/V8 moves or harder? If not, how the hell would you know about what's required?
heres my question to you ...

did you keep the XS edge?

well the REAL question is why your KL are going so LIMP and why mine and the MPer above dont

since all our poor squamish slabs are JUGS ... why the hell duntcha come up here and just solo em, especially those JUGGY 11s, especially as you send 5.13+granite slabs (no you really shouldnt, but they are JUGS) !!!

anyways thats 15 posts for the day ... time to go harrass some bangahz in da bluffs

while yr off with your JUG slabs ... here a 68 year old doing a FA on a moderate slab we cleaned off for his belated birthday (the last route he put up in squamish was over 20 years ago) ... with AZN encouragement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klmlXJgMq9E

enjoy ...

;)
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

I definitely don't climb 5.13, so perhaps I'm not keen to your edging demands, but I'm guessing the difference in experience comes from when we send the shoes in (particularly since I use the same resoler). Perhaps softening at the resole is correlational rather than causal...shoes tend to soften with X level of abuse and also tend to require a resole around the same time, depending on what you're doing. I live in Chicago and thus am forced to pull plastic much more than you spoiled Colorodians (or Squamishites!), so mine might need a resole earlier than yours from those ridiculously grippy gym holds.

This is why anecdotal evidence isn't a great basis for conclusions...

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: you DO know that any shoe will get somewhat softer as the rubber wears down
And you DO know that for hard face climbing, the part of the sole gets softening up, around the ball of the foot, usually has no rubber wear b/c it rarely even touch the rock? (Look at the photo I attached up thread & all your videos & see where the shoe is touching the rock & where it's flexing the most).

I never said the actual act of resoling made the shoes limp; it's the act of actually micro edging a lot to the point of needing a resole (or even before) that destroys the sole. Yes I resoled w/ XS Edge, but it's no magic by itself w/o sole support.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: And you DO know that for hard face climbing, the part of the sole gets softening up, around the ball of the foot, usually has no rubber wear b/c it rarely even touch the rock? (Look at the photo I attached up thread & all your videos & see where the shoe is touching the rock & where it's flexing the most). I never said the actual act of resoling made the shoes limp; it's the act of actually micro edging a lot to the point of needing a resole (or even before) that destroys the sole. Yes I resoled w/ XS Edge, but it's no magic by itself w/o sole support.
I think you mean the ARCH

There absolutely is rubber at the ball of the foot ... In fact thats what one uses for smearing on pure friction slab

;)
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: I think you mean the ARCH There absolutely is rubber at the ball of the foot ... In fact thats what one uses for smearing on pure friction slab ;)
I AM talking about the BALL of the foot. ARCH has little mobility and doesn't need support the way a mobile part of the foot needs. I qualified it w/hard face climbing, not (70 degree) pure friction slab (which there is very very little on granite, since it's usually not flat & polished like countertop, although that does happen). On rough granite, as in ALL your photos, even if you are smearing, you are almost always aiming for a small irregularity & you certainly don't put the ball of the foot on the feature. Besides, if you are putting the ball of the foot on the rock a lot, you probably should neither use a pair of stiff shoes nor hard rubber like XS Edge. Only my crack & gym climbing shoes have any perceptible rubber wear beyond the first inch of the toe (and sometimes minimal wear on the outside edge of the foot).
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: I AM talking about the BALL of the foot. ARCH has little mobility and doesn't need support the way a mobile part of the foot needs. I qualified it w/hard face climbing, not (70 degree) pure friction slab (which there is very very little on granite, since it's usually not flat & polished like countertop, although that does happen). On rough granite, as in ALL your photos, even if you are smearing, you are almost always aiming for a small irregularity & you certainly don't put the ball of the foot on the feature. Besides, if you are putting the ball of the foot on the rock a lot, you probably should neither use a pair of stiff shoes nor hard rubber like XS Edge. Only my crack & gym climbing shoes have any perceptible rubber wear beyond the first inch of the toe (and sometimes minimal wear on the outside edge of the foot).
On those photos i posted there are many folks that absolutely use the ball of their foot to smear

How the hell do you think they did the FAs decades ago without all this fancy downturned pebble pullling shoes

Its JUGS i tell you ... Just come solo all our JUG slabs

;)
Tristan Baldwin · · Amherst, NH · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 120

Getting back on topic...

my favorite shoes are the Pythons. I've had 3 pairs. You can downsize them like crazy then they mold to your feet. Despite having like 5 different pairs of climbing shoes to choose from, I prefer them for most types of climbing. Even when down sized 3 full Euro sizes, you can wear them on low angle friction slab. My favorite parts about them are sensitivity which I've only felt matched by the 5.10 team vxi's and the heels which are unparalleled. Oh, did I mention that even when downsized you can still bend your toes up for really technical toe hooks! I really hope that the replacements don't detract from the heel and toe hook capability. I can, begrudgingly, live with a less sensitive shoe, a la the miura lace or vs, but I can't let go of the toe, the mold-ability of the upper or the versatility of the heel.

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: On those photos i posted there are many folks that absolutely use the ball of their foot to smear How the hell do you think they did the FAs decades ago without all this fancy downturned pebble pullling shoes
They effghing edged using shoes w/ much stiffer last than modern climbing shoes (which are now almost entirely slip lasted instead of board lasted). Your little quiver of climbing shoes, even brand new, are soft in comparison.

Sticky rubber (not XS Edge, though even that's way stickier than before) absolutely transformed pure friction slab (made sometimes impossible into casual). Downturned shoes, on the other hand, absolutely transformed steep climbing and enabled slab techniques (mainly very high step) that wasn't practical before.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: They effghing edged using shoes w/ much stiffer last than modern climbing shoes (which are now almost entirely slip lasted instead of board lasted). Your little quiver of climbing shoes, even brand new, are soft in comparison. Sticky rubber (not XS Edge, though even that's way stickier than before) absolutely transformed pure friction slab (made sometimes impossible into casual). Downturned shoes, on the other hand, absolutely transformed steep climbing and enabled slab techniques (mainly very high step) that wasn't practical before.
They "edged" friction slab climbs?

Hahahaha

Have you seen those old geezahs climb those climbs?

Oh and btw mythos use xs edge, they are a pretty good smearing shoe, but not the best for edging

Come here and solo our poor JUG slabs you 5.13+ granite friction slab climber you

;)
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: They "edged" friction slab climbs?
The (what's still considered) hard slabs weren't smeared or it wouldn't still be hard. Modern climbing shoes/rubber are a world better at smearing than BITD.
bearbreeder wrote: Oh and btw mythos use xs edge, they are a pretty good smearing shoe, but not the best for edging
On the men's model (explain to me why Sportiva would use something different on women's mythos). It has gone thru other Vibram rubbers including XSV, XS Grip. And it doesn't mean Grip wouldn't have smeared better than Edge in the mythos, b/c you can't just smear you way up everything.

Since you are such an expert on granite slabs, why don't you come free the moves on the harder slabs here in any shoes or bear claws, new or resoled? You can lead, TR, hangdog, whatever.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: The (what's still considered) hard slabs weren't smeared or it wouldn't still be hard. Modern climbing shoes/rubber are a world better at smearing than BITD. On the men's model (explain to me why Sportiva would use something different on women's mythos). It has gone thru other Vibram rubbers including XSV, XS Grip. And it doesn't mean Grip wouldn't have smeared better than Edge in the mythos, b/c you can't just smear you way up everything. Since you are such an expert on granite slabs, why don't you come free the moves on the harder slabs here in any shoes or bear claws, new or resoled? You can lead, TR, hangdog, whatever.
Your the one whinning about not being able to smear the climbs i posted photos of ... Not the "hardest" slab climb

Guess you havent seen the smearing magic of old geezahs !!!

Dude ur the one bragging about all out slabs being JUGS ... Just come out here and solo em since yr such an awwwwsum 5.13+ slab climbah

Hahaha

;)
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: Your the one whinning about not being able to smear the climbs i posted photos of
Except I didn't. You posted a bunch of photos of 5.10d-5.11c slabs, which hasn't been considered hard for at least 20 years, other than runout factors, which I said I can do in slippers, let along good edging shoes (of course you insist I should solo them instead).

bearbreeder wrote:Dude ur the one bragging about all out slabs being JUGS
I did say the hand holds are (relatively speaking ) JUGS FOR THE FEET (in good edging shoes). These are holds you can casually stand on, usually go hands free & rest, i.e. jugs. Of all your annoyances (like constantly changing topic when you run out of rebuttals), stop twisting my words.

I did also say I cannot edge hard slabs after (or sometimes even before) shoes need a resole, and you insisted something is wrong w/ my resole. So come show me how to climb them, you don't even need to use resoled shoes.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: Except I didn't. You posted a bunch of photos of 5.10d-5.11c slabs, which hasn't been considered hard for at least 20 years, other than runout factors, which I said I can do in slippers, let along good edging shoes (of course you insist I should solo them instead). I did say the hand holds are (relatively speaking ) JUGS for the feet. These are holds you can casually stand on, usually go hands free & rest, i.e. jugs. Of all your annoyances (like constantly changing topic when you run out of rebuttals), stop twisting my words. I did also say I cannot edge hard slabs after (or sometimes even before) shoes need a resole, and you insisted something is wrong w/ my resole. So come show me how to climb them.
Aww poor babiii ... Cant rememeber what you said?

Let me help u ....

On rough granite, as in ALL your photos, even if you are smearing, you are almost always aiming for a small irregularity & you certainly don't put the ball of the foot on the feature.

So obviously one cant smear all dem JUG slabs ... Despite folks doing so all the time with the ball of their footsie

Hahaha

;)
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: you are almost always aiming for a SMALL IRREGULARITY, you certainly don't put the ball of the foot on THE FEATURE. So obviously one cant smear all dem JUG slabs
Do you have reading comprehension problems??? Can you only understand 5 consecutive words & not the surrounding context???

You put the BALL of the foot (whether it's used for additional friction or not) instead of the TOE area on the FEATURE/IRREGULARITY??? What happens when you stand up, will the ball of your foot still be on the feature?
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: Do you have reading comprehension problems??? Can you only understand 5 consecutive words & not the surrounding context??? You put the BALL of the foot (whether it's used for additional friction or not) instead of the TOE area on the FEATURE/IRREGULARITY??? What happens when you stand up, will the ball of your foot still be on the feature?
On small crystals, sloping edges and rough patches damn right you can smear em with the ball of yr foot

How da hell u think folks can get up thise climbs with spires, mythos, and defys .... Especially worn down ones

Certainly not by "edging" em with those "crap" edging shoes

Our poor JUG slabs needs yr 5.13+ awwwwsumness

Hahaha

;)
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: On small crystals, sloping edges and rough patches damn right you can smear em with the ball of yr foot
So you place the ball of the foot directly on top of the small crystal instead of the toe area? You'd rather place the part of the foot that generally has poorer contact w/ the rock (unless it's so low angle that you can drop the heel on the wall), rather the toe area (which can direct more targeted pressure on the small hold and is easy to maintain constant angle of contact as you move), on the small crystal?

bearbreeder wrote:How da hell u think folks can get up thise climbs with spires, mythos, and defys .... Especially worn down ones Certainly not by "edging" em with those "crap" edging shoes

So you can't smear w/ the toe area of the shoe?

No wonder you can't move out of climbing easy slabs.
Go Back to Super Topo · · Lex · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 285

I like tuhtles

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
reboot wrote: So you place the ball of the foot directly on top of the small crystal instead of the toe area? You'd rather place the part of the foot that generally has poorer contact w/ the rock (unless it's so low angle that you can drop the heel on the wall), rather the toe area (which can direct more targeted pressure on the small hold and is easy to maintain constant angle of contact as you move), on the small crystal? So you can't smear w/ the toe area of the shoe? No wonder you can't move out of climbing easy slabs.
What do you think SLAB is ???

Its LOWER angle mostly FRICTION climbing ... Not "face"

On SLAB theres 2 parts of the foot that can act as catches for small features ... And with the maximum rubber contact there BETTER friction overall

One of the golden rules with smearing with slab is to DROP that heel ....

Awwww ... So sad that your resoles all go limp on you and u cant get em stiff anymore

Just come out and solo all our poor JUG slabs already ...

Hahaha

;)
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
bearbreeder wrote: What do you think SLAB is ??? Its LOWER angle mostly FRICTION climbing
The easy stuff is lower angle (like you photos), the harder stuff can be very close to vertical. Regardless, if you are smearing, why are you using Katana lace or whatever else "stiff" sole shoes then?

bearbreeder wrote:On SLAB theres 2 parts of the foot that can act as catches for small features ... And with the maximum rubber contact there BETTER friction overall
If you are taking advantage of a feature, then more force applied to that feature gives you better friction than a more even distribution of force over a larger area of the rock. Using the ball of the foot then becomes a detriment.

bearbreeder wrote:One of the golden rules with smearing with slab is to DROP that heel
If you use a larger area of the forefoot... With only the toe area, you can extend the heel higher to reach the next hold.

Of course if you've actually climbed hard slabs you'd know all this.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

Hahahaha, another bearboy spazzout session, playing big man on the internet is very very important!

Reboot, just lol and walk away like many before you. He'll get it someday.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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