BD Alpine Start Hoody or Houdini?

I'm not familiar with the BD, but I have a Houdini and a Squamish. The Squamish is far nicer, light stretch, more breathable, molded zipper, brimmed hood, slightly more adjustable, more "parka" like fit with a drop tail and better facial coverage, less crinkly fabric.

The only downside aside from weighing about an ounce more, is it is technically less wind resistant. It is a noticeable difference though.

I can't speak for the houdini but I got the Alpine Start last year and have loved it. The stash pocket is a great size, big enough for an iphone and keys, which is very handy for multipitch. I've done a lot of offwidth and chimneying in the jacket and besides the BD logo peeling off, the actual fabric has stayed surprisingly intact and done a good job at protecting my skin. The hood also fits really well with a helmet underneath.

I primarily use this jacket as wind and abrasion protection. I haven't tested it a ton in the rain, usually just bring my raincoat if I see rain in the forecast. Good luck deciding but after purchasing the Alpine Start I have no regrets.

JPVallone wrote:BD shouldn't be making clothing.

T340 wrote:This is a very useful thread. I have the Alpine Houdini and like it, but the breathability isn't all that great. Also, I have to admit that I have given BD short shrift when it comes to their clothing line. Sounds like I need to "open up my mind" a bit!

I have a few pieces of BD clothing, including the Alpine Start Hoodie, and I love them. Worth a look, in my opinion.

I have both jackets and love them both, but use them for different reasons. (Purchased the Alpine Start and received the houdini free through work)

I like the houdini for those "oh shit" cases where I wouldn't normally carry this kind of shell, but carry the houdini because its so damn light. Its super light, and stuffs relatively easy into its only pocket. It comes with me most climbing days, and I usually clip it to my harness if I think there is a possibility of getting cold. It does a decent job of blocking wind considering its weight. Doesn't do a great job with rain, but it does help kind of. It does sort of feel like wearing a plastic bag, but thats just because of how light it is. It really is a great jacket for what it is, however, there isn't a whole lot to it.

The Alpine start is a really similar piece but basically slightly more upgraded. The alpine start is heavier, slightly more water resistant, blocks more wind, and stretches. The houndi doesn't stretch in the slightest, which is a bummer but a trade off for weight. A great perk of the alpine start is the sinches on the hood, which is great when it windy, since the houndi hood doesn't stay put as well. The alpine start also packs into its chest pocket, however its much bulkier, enough that I wouldn't chose to put in on my harness. I typically wear/carry the alpine start paired with a fleece on colder days. I find that its a great lightweight wind blocking shell, however I don't usually wear it by itself. I also find that I wear the alpine start in the winter quite a bit. Its a great shell for long approaches where its hot, and exposure isn't an issue. When I get up high, a hardshell goes over everything. I sometimes wear it while climbing, however the arms don't stay over gloves because there is no velcro, its rare that I would wear it ice climbing unless it was quite warm.

Best way I can describe what I chose to wear is through this description...

Might get cold on multi-pitch, carry the houdini. If I know I'll need something more I'll wear a fleece over just the houdini. Maybe carry the houdini for wind as an extra. If I know just the fleece isn't enough, fleece plus alpine start get worn on the route. For rock season, typically I carry the houdini, for ice season, typically its the alpine start. I find that the houdini is typically sufficient and its weight is second to none.

Hopefully this is coherent/helpful. Not often you find someone who owns two of basically the same thing.

T340 wrote:This is a very useful thread. I have the Alpine Houdini and like it, but the breathability isn't all that great. Also, I have to admit that I have given BD short shrift when it comes to their clothing line. Sounds like I need to "open up my mind" a bit!

Generally speaking, there clothing is pretty awesome. However, most people find the fit is a bit funky. A lot of their stuff doesn't fit me, so I would recommend trying it on first. Everything that I own from them works wonderfully and fits right in with other top brands, however their pricing is a bit high.

Max Forbes wrote: Generally speaking, there clothing is pretty awesome. However, most people find the fit is a bit funky. A lot of their stuff doesn't fit me, so I would recommend trying it on first. Everything that I own from them works wonderfully and fits right in with other top brands, however their pricing is a bit high.

I've heard that about their fit as well. Maybe I'm built like their pattern dummy but the VAST majority of their stuff fits me really well. Complaints I've read are that they taper too much in the waist. I love it personally. Size large BD is perfect. 6', 190, 43in Chest, 35" sleeve, broad ish shoulders. BF Pants in MEDIUM are spot on for me. 32x32 pant or 33x32 are typical for me.

Arcteryx is typically next in line.

Max Forbes wrote: Generally speaking, there clothing is pretty awesome. However, most people find the fit is a bit funky. A lot of their stuff doesn't fit me, so I would recommend trying it on first. Everything that I own from them works wonderfully and fits right in with other top brands, however their pricing is a bit high.

Max,
Thanks for the info!

youtube.com/watch?v=h9Zfd_T…

A good video that talks about the houdini specs, now we just need to find some specs on schoeller.
Edit: also thanks to the people at prolite gear I have found out the the arc'teryx squamish hoody's fabric has a 200mm hydrostatic head.

Not sure how useful 100+ mph wind on stretched fabric is.

For the best and most comparable specs on windshirts one needs to search the BPL forums. There are people on there using repeatable tests and metrics to provide excellent data on many windshirts. The windshirts is one of the holy grail pieces for the light hiker crew so they take it to a whole new level. Note that the same product might vary year to year as the manufacturer changes the fabric (not always for he better). A classic case is the Patagonia Houdini which was considered near perfect in the 2012 model year and older. Patagonia changed he fabric which dropped the air permeability (CFM) and the newer years aren't as great. Arcteryx Squamish has seen changes as well with newer model years fabric getting close to the '12 Houdini. The BD Alpine Start had been well received but as noted above, had a higher CFM rating so serves a slightly different need.

mattm wrote:Not sure how useful 100+ mph wind on stretched fabric is. For the best and most comparable specs on windshirts one needs to search the BPL forums. There are people on there using repeatable tests and metrics to provide excellent data on many windshirts. The windshirts is one of the holy grail pieces for the light hiker crew so they take it to a whole new level. Note that the same product might vary year to year as the manufacturer changes the fabric (not always for he better). A classic case is the Patagonia Houdini which was considered near perfect in the 2012 model year and older. Patagonia changed he fabric which dropped the air permeability (CFM) and the newer years aren't as great. Arcteryx Squamish has seen changes as well with newer model years fabric getting close to the '12 Houdini. The BD Alpine Start had been well received but as noted above, had a higher CFM rating so serves a slightly different need.

As far as it being on stretched fabric i simply say, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, stretch fabrics mean that any time the jacket stretches you loose it's wind resistance not desirable for a outer layer.

I really like my Arc'teryx Squamish hoody as a light wind resistant layer. It packs down small, easy to carry on a harness, fits me great, is nice and wind resistant, has DWR so it will withstand a small amount of rain, layers great, seems to breathe well enough, and is really abrasion resistant and durable. I've worn it in all sorts of conditions from day cragging to multi-pitch to ice climbing to snow travel days no scuffs or tears yet. Probably one of my favorite jackets that I carry year round, and people always ask me about it when I pull it out since it packs down so small.

If you love the Ferrosi, you could look at the Whirlwind. I believe that's the reboot of the hoody from several years ago that my friend has, which is lighter, smaller, and more breathable than my Ferrosi (and I jealously covet)

I haven't yet found a solid purpose for the squamish, it's a great backup wind/rain jacket for nice days. However it doesn't replace a hardshell in nasty weather, or a puffy in cold weather, and puffys are generally windproof. The only thing it makes sense to layer with is a fleece. I'd probably like it better if I had more days at a leisure pace in nice weather. For bad weather it's superseded by other jackets, for heavy exertion it doesn't breathe enough. However, like with all of their clothing, the fit is great on my tall skinny frame.

Arc'teryx Squamish without a doubt. I pack and use this jacket more than any other. I've tried everything out there and this one always comes with me.

Reviving thread a bit, anyone have experience with the Arc' Psiphon FL?

Christian Black wrote:Reviving thread a bit, anyone have experience with the Arc' Psiphon FL?

I like it. I grab this when I'm multi-pitch climbing on cooler days. The fabric is more burly than my Squamish hoody so I'm not afraid to thrash it in wide cracks. Does well in light rain too.