Rumney Top Anchors

I have gotten out a few times this year, and it seems that the solid gate clippies I lubed up in the late fall all held up ok! That is some validation for carrying a little WD40 and giving them a quick squirt if you can.

That said, I have been made aware of others that have had the gate spring fail, and I am out of replacements. Kevin Daniels from Fixe promised some more, but has not come through.

The RCA has decided on the rams horn and Dave Quinn has promised to get some to me. I prefer the steel biners with wire gates and am considering buying a few more.

A few of you volunteered to chip in in the fall, how do people feel now?

How much are they per pair? Will help you intall.

Will check and let you know. Uncertain about Sun, Sat is better

I was under the impression that the anchors at Rumney would be slowly be replaced with the pig tail type anchors:

Not sure if you were using WD40 to clean the anchors or lubricate them but be careful using it as lubricant. WD40 is technically a cleaner and can actually attract more gunk and accelerate further wear.

the rams horn seem to be pretty great so far from what I can see. Real simple and no moving parts to worry about breaking or having to lubricate. seem like they should last a while

kemple sr. wrote:Will check and let you know. Uncertain about Sun, Sat is better

Still interested in donating. Have more money than time. Direct message me details.

The RCA decided to invest in the rams horns or pig tails, but they did it without input from the community, I am not saying they were wrong, but I find a carabiner much more intuitive. We really don't know which will last longer, but will be able to evaluate better in a year or so. In the meantime, I have purchased a few steel wiregates, and fixe has sent a few as a token apology for their units that have gate springs failing. I am now out of these and contemplating my next move. tk

I replaced the garbage at the top of peer pressure last fall with new steel climbtech clips. But i talked to Dave Quinn and Chris Smith a little bit ago about the anchors and I agree that the rams horns are the way to go. no moving parts to fail, strong and simple. as long as people understand that you do not top rope through them they should last a long time. I honestly think if more of the anchors have rams horns, people will be more apt to use their own gear to top rope climbs.

this is what the rams horn at Rumney look like, only not off single bolts

Having used both, I think the biners are better for anchors that are hard to clip, while the rams horns are fine for easy to clip anchors. Just my two zinc cents....

kemple sr. wrote:The RCA decided to invest in the rams horns or pig tails, but they did it without input from the community, I am not saying they were wrong, but I find a carabiner much more intuitive. tk

I just wanted to clarify that the RCA did gather input from the community on using Pigtail anchors. In addition to using social media, Dave Quinn introduced Pigtails when he attended a climber safety clinic held in the spring of 2015 at Evo. He gave a power point demonstration on anchors and bolts and associated wear and tear. RCA Board Members connected with other LCO’s, like the WMCC, on the use of pigtail anchor systems to regional approval and interest. Additionally, in 2015 the RCA and the White Mountain National Forest hired a joint intern for a trailhead steward program at Rumney, occurring on each Saturday throughout the summer of 2015. RCA introduced new pigtail anchor systems by physically showcasing them during the duration of this program which was held in the main parking lot. Last year 2,000+ engagements with climbers occurred. Finally, I earned a few hundred dollars for this initiative through Access Fund's Anchor Replacement Fund which sought to outfit less than 10% of the overall routes at Rumney with Pigtails. The goal in 2015 was to install Pigtails at a gradual rate of installation, over a few years, to allow for further community discussion and climber experiences to occur. The investment in 2015 amounted to just a few hundred dollars with the added grant money received in October. Goals in 2015 were to lessen time spent performing maintenance and save RCA funds over the long term. Original clip anchors cost ~$22.00 per anchor station and the pigtails at that time cost around ~$12.80 for total installation. 646 total routes X $12.80 pigtail anchors: $8,268.80 in future anchor replacement costs VS. 646 total routes X $22.00 clip: $14,212 in future anchor replacement costs (with RCA discount factored). I think the discussion is still ongoing.

Thanks for your hardwork Tim.

Rose

Unlike many of the people making decisions for Rumney, I often climb at the cliffs where newbies are. The Parking Lot wall, Meadows etc, and I see the potential disasters that happen on a daily basis. There are few things more likely to ruin a day than having a leader shouting up instructions to a scared beginner, on how to switch out the anchor. I think a carabiner is much more intuitive than the rams horn.

I also agree with Ward, that on harder clips, biners make sense. Peer pressure is a classic example. Could you imagine trying to thread a rams horn with that pump going!

I hope the RCA follows up on last year's thread and installs a practice anchor area in the Meadows. The boulder next to the up trail is perfect for this. 3 sets of bolts (rings,horns,biners) would allow anyone new to the process to practice there safely.

As to the cost: It is unfortunate that the RCA invested in the forged clippies. They were very expensive and as it turns out, not suited for outdoor use. Most of the blame for that falls on Fixe. Steel biners cost $4 to $5, so not much different than the ram's horns. The clippies do require a quick link however, but a stainless one will last many years.

I can agree with you there! I hated every time I got to the top of peer pressure and that freaking locker was locked. That and the old BD D-biner, thats why I put new steel Climbtech biners with deep baskets up there. definitely would be a pain there for sure.

But I do think that rams horns make a lot of sense for a lot of climbs. I think it just comes down to educating people on them. I know Evo is now incorporating them into their lead climbing instruction, maybe other gyms will follow suit as Rumney is the next step for a lot of the climbers coming out of the gyms in the area.

This thread brings back memories for me.

8 years ago I went to Rumney for my second ever day outside climbing.
My first outdoor lead was Snake Skin Slab. It had those super shuts (U shaped with a gate). It was strange to have them on such an easy climb and we top roped through them until someone told us not to.

My second ever lead climb was Squall, a short 10d that starts off a little ledge. I made short work of the crux and then got lost in a sea of good holds, missing the final bolt and thinking about how fucking awesome I was. Then reality crept in and I decided I better clip this anchor quick and realized I might be able to clip from low down. The anchor had an oval solid gate biner that had hibernated that winter and was truly stuck closed. My mouth agape, 4 feet of rope slid out of my teeth which my novice belayer took in surprisingly fast. I fell the entire length of the route and then past my belay, grazing the belay ledge with my shin. I still have a scar from this very first lead fall and I was pretty cautious for the next few years.

IMO the solution is steel wiregates, replaceable, durable, and might not need WD 40

kemple sr. wrote:I also agree with Ward, that on harder clips, biners make sense. Peer pressure is a classic example. Could you imagine trying to thread a rams horn with that pump going!

Tim everyone knows that the proper way to finish Peer Pressure is to mantle over the lip anyways!

Rams Horns just take a little practice, just like when you first fumbled through your first biner clips. They are only marginally more difficult to clip once you figure it out.

I have always felt the clippies were a complete waste of money, didn't hold up and encouraged TRing through them. Rams Horns have much of the plusses of heavy quicklinks with the simplicity and beefiness and the benefits of clippies without the cost, bad gates and other issues.

kemple sr. wrote:Unlike many of the people making decisions for Rumney, I often climb at the cliffs where newbies are. The Parking Lot wall, Meadows etc, and I see the potential disasters that happen on a daily basis. There are few things more likely to ruin a day than having a leader shouting up instructions to a scared beginner, on how to switch out the anchor. I think a carabiner is much more intuitive than the rams horn. I also agree with Ward, that on harder clips, biners make sense. Peer pressure is a classic example. Could you imagine trying to thread a rams horn with that pump going! I hope the RCA follows up on last year's thread and installs a practice anchor area in the Meadows. The boulder next to the up trail is perfect for this. 3 sets of bolts (rings,horns,biners) would allow anyone new to the process to practice there safely. As to the cost: It is unfortunate that the RCA invested in the forged clippies. They were very expensive and as it turns out, not suited for outdoor use. Most of the blame for that falls on Fixe. Steel biners cost $4 to $5, so not much different than the ram's horns. The clippies do require a quick link however, but a stainless one will last many years.

I dunno man I learned to lead and clean routes with chains at the top. I think doing something in contemplation of people not knowing basic anchor skills is too narrow a view

Re: ease of clipping - I don't buy it. If you haven't done a route before you should always be bringing anchor gear with you so worst case you clip a draw then switch to the threads

These are a few of the Fixe forged biners that have had gate spring failure. Kevin Daniels has twice promised to make good on some more of these, but has failed to do so.

Tomorrow I will contact Trango and see what we can work out. They seem to be far more responsible as a company.

Jon Frisby wrote: I dunno man I learned to lead and clean routes with chains at the top. I think doing something in contemplation of people not knowing basic anchor skills is too narrow a view Re: ease of clipping - I don't buy it. If you haven't done a route before you should always be bringing anchor gear with you so worst case you clip a draw then switch to the threads

Normally, I would agree with you. But at super high traffic areas like Rumney, this means that people will be waiting forever while people who have never threaded try to learn how to do it. Painful at best. Easy clips really don't cost much more, so why not?

Why not treat the ram heads like an area that just has chains? Bring your own quickdraws up and use them on the anchors until you're done with the route then clip in direct to clean the anchor by swapping over the the rams. It would lower the use of the the ram head if the first leader is lowered off their own draws and the last person up is the only person being lowered on the fixed gear.

Eric, that is standard practice, regardless of what fixed anchor is there. We have ring anchors, quick clips, and ram's horns on various routes. some of the harder routes just have biners there, because experienced climbers know not to take them. You are supposed to use your own gear for all lower offs, and only the last person uses the fixed gear.

There are several considerations that have been taken into account when the top anchor type was chosen. Rings are cheap and longest lasting. However when you have a line up waiting for a climb it is maddening to wait for the last person to thread and lower, and it is worse if they are inexperienced. It is even dangerous, and there have been many accidents elsewhere from this practice.

The clippies are quick,intuitive, potentially inexpensive, and only a moderate hassle to replace.

The RCA went for the rams horns because of the very expensive premature failure of the Fixe quick clips. The rams horns are simple, with no moving parts, and easy to replace. However, they are not intuitive, and I keep hearing about set ups where you can't fit a draw into the bolt holding the rams horn and it leads to a mickey mouse set up or just top roping through the rams horns. Also, they are a little more challenging to thread, so climbs like Gloria Jean could be quite scarey.

I still think steel clippies are our best option at $4-5 each and don't mind replacing them. However, I am still in the evaluation process, so let's see how they wear.

kemple sr. wrote:Eric, that is standard practice, regardless of what fixed anchor is there....

Some people just made it sound weird that they were hard to clip and I couldn't figure out why that would matter since you should hang your own draw and clipping that. When it comes time to thread the ram you should be in direct to the anchor and should be free to use both hands, etc... I would think the rams would discourage TR vs biners. If there's really an issue with understanding on how to get the rope into a rams maybe putting one at the kiosk at the parking lot with a pictorial or a practice anchor in a near by rock.