Officially sold on Totem Cams

youtu.be/gRnuVh1xWiQ

I was shopping over at The Bent Gate (great shop by the way, highly recommended) the other day and checking out the totems when one of the employees suggested I plug it into the pinches and compare it to the other brands. Amazement ensued. None of the cams would even think about holding and would just slip out with a few pounds of force EXCEPT for the Totems, which would hold full body weight. Now, I know what you're thinking: "oh yeah! Totems would be perfect for trad climbing in the gym!" I get that it's plastic and vastly different that rock but I think the takeaway should be in low friction placements Totems are the only choice.

So, why do the Totems hold when all others won't? My guess is cam angle. I'm sure bearbreader will post some slick chart of all the brands cams and their cam angles ;)

P.S. I know it's a shitty video, if you want a better one take your own damn video.

I'm sold on them too. But the Totem is not made by Fixe. Totem and Fixe are completely separate companies. They both make Alien knockoffs, but only Totem makes the "Totem" cam. The Totem basic (Alien) is also nice and superior to the Fixe Alien IMO.

The Totems really shine in flares, where you might otherwise need an offset cam.

It's not the cam angle, it's just the coefficient of friction on plastic. A combination of the fresh anodizing on the BD lobes plus their smoother lobe surface means they don't have as much friction on a smooth, uniform surface like plastic or sheet metal (another video I've seen, don't have the link right now). The totem has a textured grid on the cam lobe that gives a bit more friction.

In the real world, on 90% of rock at major climbing areas, there is plenty of friction for a cam to hold.

Are you talking about the Basics, or the ones with all the cables?

Edited: Just watched the video. I believe the reason is that rather than pulling on the axle, the Totem's stem is made up of four cables attached to each cam lobe. When force is applied to the "stem" it's actually applied to the cables which pull the lobes outwards directly, rather than via the axle. This means pulling on the "stem" results in the lobes being forced out into the rock (or plastic in this case). This design also seems to help prevent walking. Pretty cool really!

Yeah, I like the Basic I got...haven't tried it in real rock yet. To be honest, my X4s stick about as good in plastic, but I like the narrower profile and extended range. Tricams, btw, are absolutely bomber in plastic. I was able to hang and even bounce on a cordellette anchor built off my hangboard with Tricams...all of the cam anchors pulled when I tried this because they rely on friction, which seems to be the takeaway for small cams. Conversely, I've hung from a red C4 in WOOD.

So for indoor trad, totems are the way to go!

Nathanael wrote:It's not the cam angle, it's just the coefficient of friction on plastic. A combination of the fresh anodizing on the BD lobes plus their smoother lobe surface means they don't have as much friction on a smooth, uniform surface like plastic or sheet metal (another video I've seen, don't have the link right now). The totem has a textured grid on the cam lobe that gives a bit more friction. In the real world, on 90% of rock at major climbing areas, there is plenty of friction for a cam to hold.

Initially, this is what I thought as well, but you'll notice that only the c4s and dragons have anodized lobes. Later I grabbed one of my well used x4s and it was the same story: slips right out.

Mathias wrote:Are you talking about the Basics, or the ones with all the cables? Edited: Just watched the video. I believe the reason is that rather than pulling on the axle, the Totem's stem is made up of four cables attached to each cam lobe. When force is applied to the "stem" it's actually applied to the cables which pull the lobes outwards directly, rather than via the axle. This means pulling on the "stem" results in the lobes being forced out into the rock (or plastic in this case). This design also seems to help prevent walking. Pretty cool really!

^this sounds very plausible to me at the moment. +1

You can have clear anodizing. I think if you took a well used c4 to the same test, or machined the surface of a C4 with the same pattern as on a totem, you could get it to hold in that pocket.

I mean I'm sold on totems, too, but I just dont think this test proves anything. Unless you climb on really slippery rock I guess.

csproul wrote:I'm sold on them too. But the Totem is not made by Fixe. Totem and Fixe are completely separate companies. They both make Alien knockoffs, but only Totem makes the "Totem" cam. The Totem basic (Alien) is also nice and superior to the Fixe Alien IMO. The Totems really shine in flares, where you might otherwise need an offset cam.

Thanks for the clarification, csproul. He seemed very knowledgable but I think maybe just a tad camera shy.

Thanks for posting that video Don - it is very compelling.

I bought a set last year because of all the superlative hype but ended up selling them. I just hated how they handled (not as easy to grab off your harness and slam into placements) relative to Camalots. I don't like Dragons (no thumb loop) or TCU's for the same reason. That same bulk can also interfere with finger and foot placements on very thin, technical cracks. Lastly, they hang awkwardly on the harness and tangle in each other.

This review really sums it up for me.

Take all of this with a grain of salt though: For the typical trad climber or aid climber I'm sure they're amazing. But I'm pushing my limits and whipping all the time on my gear and just didn't like how they felt. I'm sure someone will post a link to Arnauld Petit climbing that 8b sport route on these things.

But dang, when I see a video like this I really start second guessing my decision to sell them. Maybe I should give them another try.

PS: I have two sets of Totem Basics which are amazing, have replaced my Aliens, and perfectly complement C3's.

Thank you, Tim. :)

Nathanael wrote:It's not the cam angle

No. It IS the cam angle. Or more to the point the "equivalent cam angle" because the design of these babies means that the actual angle is not comparable.

These things grip with more outward force than anything out there. Plus they work better in flares which is a different attribute driven by slightly different mathematics.

Don Ferris wrote:My guess is cam angle. I'm sure bearbreader will post some slick chart of all the brands cams and their cam angles ;)

Here is my less slick list:

Aliens 16degrees
BD 14.5degreees (correct me if I'm wrong)
WC&DMM 13.75degrees
Metolius 13.25degrees.
Totems ~12.5-13.1degrees (Source) (Equivalent cam angle)

Totems clearly grip better than any cam on the market. Both in slick rock and in flares. That said if you rock isn't slick the a BD will hold just as well as a Totem. If you have slick rock you want some thing at the bottom of the spectrum.

(For flares you want a LARGER actual cam angle. Which is why aliens and Totems work so well. Totem actual cam angle is 20degrees which is why they work so well in cracks)

If you want the MATH, see the linked document.

patto wrote: No. It IS the cam angle. Or more to the point the "equivalent cam angle" because the design of these babies means that the actual angle is not comparable. These things grip with more outward force than anything out there. Plus they work better in flares which is a different attribute driven by slightly different mathematics. Here is my less slick list: Aliens 16degrees BD 14.5degreees (correct me if I'm wrong) WC&DMM 13.75degrees Metolius 13.25degrees. Totems ~12.5-13.1degrees (Source) (Equivalent cam angle) Totems clearly grip better than any cam on the market. Both in slick rock and in flares. That said if you rock isn't slick the a BD will hold just as well as a Totem. If you have slick rock you want some thing at the bottom of the spectrum. (For flares you want a LARGER actual cam angle. Which is why aliens and Totems work so well. Totem actual cam angle is 20degrees which is why they work so well in cracks) If you want the MATH, see the linked document.

I know the camming angle is better. I'm speculating that in this instance the deciding factor is the coefficient of friction.

I.e. if you made a cam with the lobe surface of a totem and a camming angle of 14.5, it will stick.
And if you made a cam with the surface of a brand new BD and a equiv cam angle of 13, it won't.

I don't think you can know the answer for sure without doing the math and measuring the friction. So I think we're both blowing smoke.

Nathanael wrote: I know the camming angle is better. I'm speculating that in this instance the deciding factor is the coefficient of friction. I.e. if you made a cam with the lobe surface of a totem and a camming angle of 14.5, it will stick. And if you made a cam with the surface of a brand new BD and a equiv cam angle of 13, it won't. I don't think you can know the answer for sure without doing the math and measuring the friction. So I think we're both blowing smoke.

I could be off base here, but, I think the lower the cam angle, the high the coefficient of friction is due to the increased outward force.

Also, the totem cams are the only cam with that much "texture", ie. the grooves. That would help it bite much better into plastic that other cams with larger ridges on the lobes.

Don Ferris wrote: I could be off base here, but, I think the lower the cam angle, the high the coefficient of friction is due to the increased outward force.

The coefficient of friction is simply a function of the two surfaces.
The frictional force is increased with outward force (low camming angle).

Would it be safe to say that it is possible for the lobe texture on the totems to wear down after use thus decreasing friction. Does anyone have any experience with this? How well do the lobes wear?

emorekul wrote:Would it be safe to say that it is possible for the lobe texture on the totems to wear down after use thus decreasing friction. Does anyone have any experience with this? How well do the lobes wear?

I use totems almost exclusively on aid FAs and they hold of differently after wear than they did brand new. They are far and away better in almost every placement than my c4s, metolious cams, and my aliens. Comparisons between fixe aliens and totems basics have the basics working better in all ways. Far superior cams.

Totems will hold body weight on upward flares in a way that C4s will not.

That many people aren't on board with totems are fine by me, more availability for me and my team.

Jcburgart wrote:*deleted statement saying he never got authorization to post the video from the guy at the shop that helped him*.

Lol. Not cool dude, probably should take that down.

All other cams the actual force is transferred into the stem and the cam is engaged by friction on the rock. The cam lobes need friction to make them grip and engage the rock surface(the cam springs just encourage the start of this process).

The original totems are have two modes of engaging the rock.
1. The cam return springs encourage this just like every other cam on the market.
2. They are a stemless design. The strength of these cams are in the cables that run to each lobe. A 1.00 is rated to 10kn so each cable run is responsible for 2.5kn. These cables are also routed in a way that when loaded they help lever each lobe into action.