Kid's harness question

Hey all! I recently purchased a full body harness to get my three-year-old on a rope. There is only one tie in point at the front which makes it look pretty easy. However, I have seen other parents climbing with their kid in front of them attached to their own harness – the parent climbing. And the kid pseudo-climbing in front of them. I've never gotten a good enough look at the system to know how it works. Does anybody know the details of this? It seems like a good alternative to sending a kid up on their own for the first time. I would appreciate any input folks have. Thanks!

Have not seen that. But if helpful here's what we do with our 4yr old. I'll set a toprope in an "M" shape with one line fixed to the ground and then the other side of the rope configured like a normal toprope. I ascend the fixed line with a micro traxion and my wife belays the boy so we are next to each other the whole time. When we get to the top, I switch to rappel (with backup!) and rappel next to him as he is being lowered. Works great!

awolf wrote:Have not seen that. But if helpful here's what we do with our 4yr old. I'll set a toprope in an "M" shape with one line fixed to the ground and then the other side of the rope configured like a normal toprope. I ascend the fixed line with a micro traxion and my wife belays the boy so we are next to each other the whole time. When we get to the top, I switch to rappel (with backup!) and rappel next to him as he is being lowered. Works great!

That is so creative, very cool! Thanks.

Keep it simple. Tie your kid in, let them climb as far as they want. If your kid can't lower, make sure the terrain is easy.

I would not recommend rigging a self belay ( top rope solo ) along side your kid unless you are experienced with it. Starting out your kid climbing is the wrong time to play around with belay/anchor shenanigans.

What I have done is...
1) set up a top rope
2) tie an alpine buttefly on a large bight of rope about 3-5m from the end of the rope.
3) I tie in to the end of the rope.
4) I tie my kid into the large bight of rope
5) Mom belays.

This essentially splits the rope into 2 strands that are about 3-5m in length. I make the kid's strand/bight slightly shorter than my strand so that I can stay slightly behind him and to the side as he climbs.

This works well, as long as the route goes straight up, doesn't wander. If I fall, I don't pull him off, because he has his own strand. Worst that can happen is my strand swings into him, but if the route is straight, then this isn't a big deal.

When it comes time to lower, i can easily position my kid right in front of me, and just pull him up and away from the rock by putting one around him and grabbing his tie in. This allows me to force him to weight the rope if he gets scared, and to comfort him at the same time by holding on to him.

The belayer must be aware that they are holding more weight than they are used to. It may be necessary to anchor the belayer down if he/she is light, and the kid is bigger/older. A belay device with a lot of friction is advisable.

Helmet, Knee and elbow pads for the little guy will help his/her confidence a lot.

Also remember that you are taking a lot of length out of your rope (potentially 10m). don't climb a 30m route with a 60m rope, and remember to knot the end.

Rick Blair wrote:Keep it simple. Tie your kid in, let them climb as far as they want. If your kid can't lower, make sure the terrain is easy. I would not recommend rigging a self belay ( top rope solo ) along side your kid unless you are experienced with it. Starting out your kid climbing is the wrong time to play around with belay/anchor shenanigans.

I also agree with Rick. Keep it as simple as possible. The only reason I have climbed along side my son was because it was his first time, and I knew he was going to get scared when he had to be lowered.

Another alternative I've heard of is to send the child up on top rope by themselves, but tie them into the middle of the rope (1/3 of rope length from the end actually). The belayer has access to both strands as the kid is climbing. That way, if he/she gets scared and you can't lower him, you can always tension his strand to force him down. You can also keep tension on his strand to prevent a pendulum or keep him on route.

Just make sure your rope is long enough. It will need to be 3x the height of the route.

cyclestupor wrote: I also agree with Rick. Keep it as simple as possible. The only reason I have climbed along side my son was because it was his first time, and I knew he was going to get scared when he had to be lowered. Another alternative I've heard of is to send the child up on top rope by themselves, but tie them into the middle of the rope (1/3 of rope length from the end actually). The belayer has access to both strands as the kid is climbing. That way, if he/she gets scared and you can't lower him, you can always tension his strand to force him down. You can also keep tension on his strand to prevent a pendulum or keep him on route. Just make sure your rope is long enough. It will need to be 3x the height of the route.

I'm loving all of the suggestions! In the end we just set up a top rope and let him go as far as he wanted and then lowered him when he was done. Easy. Although it's really interesting to read the other solutions that people have come up with, I'm sure we will try some of these in the future. Thanks everybody!

cyclestupor wrote:What I have done is... 1) set up a top rope 2) tie an alpine buttefly on a large bight of rope about 3-5m from the end of the rope. 3) I tie in to the end of the rope. 4) I tie my kid into the large bight of rope 5) Mom belays. This essentially splits the rope into 2 strands that are about 3-5m in length. I make the kid's strand/bight slightly shorter than my strand so that I can stay slightly behind him and to the side as he climbs. This works well, as long as the route goes straight up, doesn't wander. If I fall, I don't pull him off, because he has his own strand. Worst that can happen is my strand swings into him, but if the route is straight, then this isn't a big deal. When it comes time to lower, i can easily position my kid right in front of me, and just pull him up and away from the rock by putting one around him and grabbing his tie in. This allows me to force him to weight the rope if he gets scared, and to comfort him at the same time by holding on to him. The belayer must be aware that they are holding more weight than they are used to. It may be necessary to anchor the belayer down if he/she is light, and the kid is bigger/older. A belay device with a lot of friction is advisable. Helmet, Knee and elbow pads for the little guy will help his/her confidence a lot. Also remember that you are taking a lot of length out of your rope (potentially 10m). don't climb a 30m route with a 60m rope, and remember to knot the end.

I believe this is what I have seen and was thinking of, thank you for articulating it. Seems like a good method. :)

cyclestupor wrote: Another alternative I've heard of is to send the child up on top rope by themselves, but tie them into the middle of the rope (1/3 of rope length from the end actually). The belayer has access to both strands as the kid is climbing. That way, if he/she gets scared and you can't lower him, you can always tension his strand to force him down. You can also keep tension on his strand to prevent a pendulum or keep him on route. Just make sure your rope is long enough. It will need to be 3x the height of the route.

I've seen kid's full body harnesses with a second tie in point on the back for just this purpose. Works really well for indoor top rope setups where the rope is wrapped around a metal pipe at the top of the wall, creating too much friction to lower a small child.

Instead of using the same rope to belay the kid and bring him down, wouldn' it be simpler to just use a second rope to bring the kid down?

mark felber wrote: Instead of using the same rope to belay the kid and bring him down, wouldn' it be simpler to just use a second rope to bring the kid down?

Yes, a second rope would be simpler, but it's not really necessary.

Plus after thinking about this a little more, it occurred to me that you could just tie the end of the belayer's brake strand to the back of the child, so that the rope forms a loop. If you did that you would have the full length of rope to work with