Belay Gloves. Do you use them?

Fortuna Wolf wrote:I've got a question. I've got plenty of cheap leather gloves at home for yard work. Any reason I can't use those?

Sure, there's a reason you can't use those. What are you going to work in the yard with now?

Buy cheap leather ones for climbing. I prefer the rubber coated ones for gardening just because they can get wet. Leather ones will shrink into a little dog chew toy once wet.

1) rope sliding through hand rips up hands in some situations
2) rope NOT sliding through hand, is a hand about to get sucked into an ATC when you big guys pull me up, even in a gym.

Find someone half again your weight, go to a gym, and see how this actually works. Even if you only just try to lower a linebacker on a gym top rope once, it's a good education! :-)

It's interesting that many posting here say they use them. My personal observation around the crags is the opposite and that glove wearers are in the minority.

Yeah, I agree. I see very few people using gloves.

I use gloves most of the time. The biggest reason is for rappelling, so I can rap smoothly and quickly without burning my hands. I also use them for belaying (since I have them anyway), mostly to help prevent burn while lowering. I'm not concerned about burning my hands catching a fall, but I do like keeping as much aluminum oxide off my hands as possible.

I make my own from cheap ($7) leather work gloves I get at a army surplus store (way cheaper than home depot, etc). I cut the finger tips off so I can manipulate gear, and occasionally climb in them on the easier stuff. I reinforced the cut spots on my 2nd pair. First pair lasted 2 years, though they're still useable.

One point. I rarely if ever rap so fast that gloves would be of much use or in any way necessary. From my perspective that would generally mean I'm rapping too fast relative to my ability to monitor every aspect of the rappel second-by-second. That's how people rap off the end of their ropes - they're moving faster than they can check where the ends are. I move a bit faster if I'm doing more than a half dozen raps to get down, but otherwise I'm exceptionally cautious on rappel and that has served me well over the decades.

csproul wrote:It's interesting that many posting here say they use them. My personal observation around the crags is the opposite and that glove wearers are in the minority.

I think that's just a matter of response bias - people excited about wearing gloves are more likely to respond. I don't have anything to contribute to the conversation other than "No, I don't ever wear gloves when belaying or climbing rock." But I'll add it now, to help even things out.

I don't advocate that you shouldn't wear gloves, I don't disagree with any of the many valid reasons most of you do wear them, and I'm unlikely to be convinced to start wearing them myself. So, I don't wear gloves. That's all.

Healyje wrote:One point. I rarely if ever rap so fast that gloves would be of much use or in any way necessary. From my perspective that would generally mean I'm rapping too fast relative to my ability to monitor every aspect of the rappel second-by-second.

Even if you are not the first one down & your partner has the rope ends at the next anchor down? I understand gloves are a personal preference, but stop pretending wearing them somehow make things more dangerous.

reboot wrote: stop pretending wearing them somehow make things more dangerous.

If it isn't the way healyj does it, then it's dangerous and will be the end of climbing as we know it.

You know, it's a little known fact that the faux rock album in "Spinal Tap" titled Smell the Glove was actually about belaying gloves. True story.

Healyje wrote:That's how people rap off the end of their ropes - they're moving faster than they can check where the ends are.

No, no, no! They come off because they don't put knots in the end. Simple as that.

I don't come screaming down, but when I see my next "landing spot" and have safety precautions in place (knots), it is nice to not have my hands hurt by rope friction as I go faster than hand-over-hand rapping allows. Whatever your preference, gloves don't somehow make you more reckless.

reboot wrote:I understand gloves are a personal preference, but stop pretending wearing them somehow make things more dangerous.

Never once have I ever said wearing gloves "somehow make things more dangerous". In fact, you'd have to twist what I've said pretty damn hard to come away with that message.

I have said gloves are in no way necessary to safely hold falls

and

I've said rapping fast is unwise

Ancent wrote:No, no, no! They come off because they don't put knots in the end. Simple as that.

There are lots of places and circumstances where knots aren't used for rappelling and for good reasons. And putting knots in the ends is no substitute for second-by-second monitoring of your rappel. Rapping on to the knots may not kill you, but it's a sure sign you were completely out of touch with what was going on and, moving too fast.

I wear them when belaying TRs or gym climbs. Reason? Not anxious to absorb a bunch of aluminum into my system. When outdoors and off the TR, I ditch them.

Healyje. Yes most people will nevet catch a fall factor two so you could climb a life time and never need gloves. When you belay you should however be ready for the maximum fall factor.

Here's the video showing a fall factor two catch using a locked off Munter Hitch. Notice how much rope goes through the biner! And he's wearing gloves.

Without gloves and if your hand was closer to the biner, I could imagine that the belayer might lose control of the belay and drop the leader!

youtube.com/watch?v=jZTZENu…

Here's the article that mentions that rope slip is least with a Munter, second best with a Gri-Gri and third best with an ATC.

Scroll way down to the bottom where it reads: Belay Device Theory, Testing and Practice

bolt-products.com/Glue-inBo…

Thelceman, great video. I've known of belay failures/leader grounding where a glove on the brake hand would have made a difference. They have always been associated with poor belaying technique done by poorly trained beginners though. (So far) A few more quick points to note.

1st) That fall in the vid is the max plus a bit more that anyone of us will ever have to catch in our lives (that's the short version, the readers can fill in the rest with a google of UIAA rated fall factor 2 test).

2nd) Belaying a leader with a Munter Hitch as in the vid, the correct lock is straight out. They had that test rigged at an angle over a hole so the belayer would find it near impossible to achieve the maximum strength from the hitch. It was a great vid, super demo, not saying it wasn't. That belayer did his job too as good as it gets. However, on a stance 10 pitches up, that belayer would have been able to develop more holding power: more than an ATC (as measured by tests). Given the uncontrolled angle (maybe 30 degrees less than optimal?), it's hard to say what the actual rope run distance would have been had it been done correct with the brake rope parallel and near touching the line in. Certainly the belayer would have had more braking power.

3rd) Its a great reminder to all of us that the leader should yell "FALLINGGGGGG" to alert the belayer. Every second counts and you can clearly see how fast the SHTF in the vid. 2 seconds? And belayer was well prepared and ready for it too. I've had folks just quietly take a fall. If you are out of sight, it can be most interesting of course, but please don't do that if I'm belaying you:-)

As my leader is moving up the route I've prepared my mind in advance for what I want to be doing if and when you do take a fall at that exact location: it might be locking and jumping up (classic soft sport climbing catch), it might also be taking in handful after handful as much as possible to keep you off a ledge, running down a hill, getting myself high as leader hits trouble and jumping off a boulder while locked off as you fall, and it might be just locking hard and squatting. It's all situational and that includes my position, potential length of fall, gear leader has in, gear for the belay or if it's on the ground, and what I'm using for a belay device (grigri 1 or 2/ hip/ atc / Munter etc) vis a vis the rope diameter, but having that extra time, or even just sucking up the extra 6" of slack, can make a difference between you having a clean fall and clipping a nubbin and breaking an ankle -so be verbal on it if you are leading and I'm belaying. Expressly and loudly saying SHIT! will also get both my full attention and a bunch of return "Attaboy/girl" from me. If you don't want encouragement or beta, say so on the ground so when you yell SHITMOTHERF@@^ER! I can just be still and let you focus. I'll still pay attention:-)

4th) Rgold has earlier pointed out that it's not uncommon that a hand gets sucked into a device, thus the gloves being a great thing. As a Munter has more braking power than a good ATC/rope combo, that's something of significance to consider. For myself, I prefer the sensitivity of not wearing a glove. I do wear one on occasion though, usually belaying on hard steep single pitch sport routes where I know that a catch or a bunch of catches will be coming along shortly. Sometimes where I know I'll be doing a lot of belaying on others (most likely dirty) ropes. Usually in those instances, I have a grigri 2 (now) or a Grigri or Trango Cinch and they have always locked up quickly. Heads up: if you are still belaying with the Cinch, check the video on the Trango site as they have a new/improved way to belay as the old way had some issues. I didn't want to relearn it, and the Grigri2 were just out and I have that belay technique well practiced and sussed pretty solid, so I won't lead belay with a Cinch ever again. TR sure.

In almost 40 years I've never experienced a FF2....yet. Couple guys I climb with are well over 200 lbs so it could occur. Gloves are something to strongly consider. I'm at peace with what I do and why I do it, folks should experiment and see what works for them.

BERG HEIL!

I wear them, simply to keep my hands clean. I've been using the same cheap $8 TSC pair for close to 10 years.

Don't own any, never really wanted any or felt they were worth the price of all the other possible climbing gear to get. Know a few people who have them, bring them to the crag, but never really use them. Just my 2 cents

TheIceManCometh wrote:Healyje. Yes most people will nevet catch a fall factor two so you could climb a life time and never need gloves.

I've caught several on hip, plate and atc and a bunch of other long and hard falls as well. No rope slip, hands not burned. Hips took a solid beating with the hip and plate (not the best harness), my shoulder and arm with the atc.

I have a pair. I wear them much of the time, both single-pitch, and especially when climbing multi-pitch.

I find that climbing puts enough wear and tear on the skin of my hands, so that if I can reduce what I get from belaying, that is good. And, especially, when pulling up rope on multi-pitch climbs. Also, I consider them important for reducing the risk of rope burns if I have to catch a high fall-factor fall off the anchor on a multi-pitch climb.

Oh yeah, they also keep my hands a bit cleaner -- but that isn't a primary reason I use them.

What is missing here (or maybe I missed it?) is the importance of making a good choice in belay / rap device for the size of rope.

For example, plain ATC's with skinny ropes are time bombs.

Most of the time, protecting from rope burns is not necessary with a good combination of rope and device plus good technique ... although I would not go as far as saying "every time"