Big wall transition sequence
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A partner and I are planning our first big wall adventures this summer. We're both reasonably experienced trad climbers with 3+ years of multi pitching each. We're very comfortable anchor building, keeping rope clean, etc. |
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In regards to how much line to pull up when fixing the lead line, it depends on how you plan on hauling. A space haul will require more rope than say just body hauling. |
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So typically you would pull up just enough so you (the leader) has enough rope for as long of a leash as they want? Because if you pulled up all the rope you would obviously have the same flexibility, and the second would have a little less rope to manage on their way up. Just curious |
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Correct, for example if you were going to space haul you might want a 20 foot leash, where as if you were to body haul you may just want a few feet. |
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Depends. Generally I prefer to pull up just what I need, and only make exceptions if warranted. It is worth thinking about it and having an agreement with your parter before you start the pitch. |
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Regarding the lower out line, also depends. |
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My bigwall experience is limited but here is what I've been doing so far: |
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For fixing the jugging line, use a bunny-ears figure 8. A bit stronger, more confidence inspiring, and most importantly, MUCH easier to untie. There's really no down side at all. |
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Please, please, please explain to me why in the world, if you are not short fixing, you would want to pull up the extra lead line (aside from the 10 or fifteen feet you might need to haul). |
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If you fix the lead end, follower is planning to jug it, I would not pull up extra slack. The jugs slide up the dynamic lead rope much better once there is a significant amount of weight, so leaving that extra slack would be advantageous for your follower. |
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Mark Hudon wrote:Please, please, please explain to me why in the world, if you are not short fixing, you would want to pull up the extra lead line (aside from the 10 or fifteen feet you might need to haul). What does it make easier, less complicated and faster? I can't think of anything. I can only find really, really good reasons to NOT do it. Also, this myth about needing a lower out line is something I don't understand. In all of Yosemite, on all of El Cap, where do you need more than a 70meter haul line to lower out the bags? In all of my experience on El Cap (and that is probably more than 99% of the climbers posting here), I've needed more than a 70 exactly ONCE. (AND, I have climbed the most horizontal pitch on all of El Cap and didn't need it there).Hi Mark...I won't pretend to have anywhere near the experience bigwalling that you have, but I do have some rational for your comments: Pulling up the lead line: I have found that it helps the second out with less extra rope management when they are jugging up terrain that catches rope and back-up loops. If there is significant risk of the rope getting hung up when the second is jugging, s/he will have to tie lots of backup knots and take the rope with them as they jug. I figure the less rope they have to deal with, the easier it will be for them. If it is steep and/or there are few rope-eating features, I am less likely I have been to pull up all the rope. Lower out line: first, I don't have a 70m haul line, I have a 60m. Especially when I use a 70m lead line, I have found a length of docking/lower out cord to be useful. I have yet to try your suggestion of attaching the bag with a micro-trax, and since I tie the bag into the end of the rope, I haven't experimented with tying the bag in short and using the remaining lead line for lower outs and docking. It seems really simple to just leave a length of cord attached to the bag and it is already set to dock the bag and when the mule is released, it is ready to lower out if required. As always, however, I love to hear suggestions from people like you on how to make things better. |
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Use a Micro-Trax as your haul line-haul bag tie in and you'll never have to untie a tight knot again. Additionally, it gives you a built in 2:1 AND a rope grab. |
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Instead of backup knots I use a rope man directly on my belay loop for a backup. Although I don't know if that's the safest method... Or suggested... Basically Yer gonna die if you do that |
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I have only used a minitrax on the bag when I was soloing. Using an Apline Butterfly for the bag knot lets you easily retie when the leader gets close to the end of the pitch, just backup the bags with a sling while screwing around. It doesn't get you the other benefits, but I like the extra piece of mind of using a knot. |
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Loganator wrote:Instead of backup knots I use a rope man directly on my belay loop for a backup. Although I don't know if that's the safest method... Or suggested... Basically Yer gonna die if you do thatI sometimes use a Grigri as a backup when jugging traverses. But when there are lots of rope-easting features I tie real knots and take the rope up with me so there is not lots of rope hanging below me. In these situations, I've found it nice to have less rope and thankful when the leader pulled up as much as possible before fixing. |
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If you pull up all of the slack in the lead line to fix it 2 things become fubar: |
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csproul, noted. |
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Two thumbs up for Mucci's comment! |
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Thanks so much for all the responses guys, very helpful and I really appreciate it! |
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Mark Hudon wrote:Two thumbs up for Mucci's comment! I love you man! The Micro Trax has a lot of advantages, Moof, you ought to play with it a bit.I have used it when I tried to solo a couple things. It just didn't make the cut as staying part of my kit. I probably have about 4 stones on you, and manhandling the bags is not as big a deal to me. I also bring less stuff (no porters for me, maybe when I get rich some day). At the end of the day I am a real scaredy cat. I get warm fuzzy feelings from using a knot for the bags. I don't haul from a single bolt. I basically spend half my time on a wall imagining gear exploding and dropping my ass into the void. So I tend to overdo it with anchors, backups, redundancy, belts, and suspender as a result. Anyway, back to planning for Excalibur in May :) |
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Thanks Mark, Ditto! |