BoCan route with dangerous block: clean, chop, or do nothing?
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There is an issue with the Boulder Canyon route 'It's Time for Change' at the Bihedral |
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What happens if we trundle and big rocks go all the way to the road, with damage to the road surface (or worse, a car/bystanders)? How much will that jeopardize access or the relationship with CDOT? What sort of liability do the trundlers assume? Seems like a lot of unknowns to me. And for that reason, I wouldn't volunteer to help on a trundling job like this. Without CDOT giving their blessing to the work, it seems inherently risky with significant legal exposure for the samaritans who volunteer to trundle. Like they say... no good deed goes unpunished |
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Send that shit! I vote A, with utmost caution |
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It is also worth mentioning that the FA party has suggested that if the trundle doesn't look safe, that he's fine with "chopping" (but we don't chop, we pull) the route. So no bolt war is likely to result either way, at least not over that. |
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I agree with all the points that Jon H made with regard to liability and sanctioning by CDOT. A bad trundling outcome could result in access issues at best and the death of someone at worst. |
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I agree w/ Jon and Tony. |
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Option D:
Option A + put some bolts in the block and lower it down. Or piece it out and lower... Maybe some small stuff will fall, but with look outs... |
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This seems like a no-brainer. Pull the bolts. Too many bad outcomes with trundling are possible, and there are lots of comparable routes at the crag. |
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It's like moving a path further away from a known, live bomb. Instead of actually doing something about it, you just move the path around it and put up a sign. |
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So if you go with Option A, with the spotters and you trundle the block and it ends up making down to the road and hurts no one.... you may still have a huge block on the road, and you may end up doing some damage to the road. Both of which will probably result in CDOT having to come out and do something about it. Option A and Option C have the most uncertainty and the potential for something to go wrong. Option B has the least uncertainty, and the smallest chance for something to go wrong. |
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Trundle it. Better to come down in a manageable way than on an unsuspecting hiker/climber. If you're up for it, then bolt the block and lower it. |
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I haven't climbed this route, but I heard about the loose block on it years ago. One option that hasn't been discussed would be to bolt the block to the wall. Put a bolt in the block & chain it to a bolt in solid rock. If the block is too loose to safely do this, then the other two options are both valid. I have almost always been against bolt removal, but removing a dangerous route is a good exception. |
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Can the admin for the page at least change the rating to, "BOMB" and put the warning in the description? Someone has already added a comment, but who knows how diligent someone is gonna be if they're using the mobile app offline. |
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CDOT wouldn't know about these risks without that report, and they punted. It's gonna fall eventually, so I say trundle when you can do it safely for everyone involved: Option A |
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Mark Roth wrote:Option D: Option A + put some bolts in the block and lower it down. Or piece it out and lower... Maybe some small stuff will fall, but with look outs...Good thought, but could also be a house of cards totalling much more weight than a person (or gear) is going to control... Not to say a trundle is not an option, but to say, certainly, that control can not be assured. With that, let's continue the discussion... Also, can we figure out a weighting system whereas a person who goes and inspects this thing directly gets a bigger vote? (I speak in figurative terms of course, but I do advocate for offering the best informed opinion possible... |
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The three or four mid-route rocks
Re: stopping the route prior to the block(s) The route is a continuation of 'Night Moves' which has a two bolt Mussy hook anchor below the arete. blocks, bolts I guessed on the approximate location for the photo comparison - take with a grain of salt. The block outlined in red wiggles like a loose tooth. It is likely to be used while stemming up the shallow dihedral. The rock outlined in blue is small enough to be picked up and thrown were it not wedged behind the massive yellow rock(s) of unknown depth/stability. The crux block above outlined in green has moved a bit since this photo was taken in 2012. I think the block is oblong enough that it would either break apart or slide rather than roll. Same goes for the tooth. I doubt that the green rock would hit the red/yellow/blue, but any of them could possibly smash the hangers below. The area below is also an optional rappel route. Many climbers opt to down-climb the ridge to skier's left. |
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Get cable swedge tool and strap it down with a few bolts. Or trundle it in the middle of the night with a crew of spotters. |
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Trundle in the wee hours with spotters. |
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Consider that with the bolt the block/lower option, sometimes the impact and vibration of drilling a hole in the loose block could send it before youre ready... |
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Darren Mabe wrote:Consider that with the bolt the block/lower option, sometimes the impact and vibration of drilling a hole in the loose block could send it before youre ready...And I've already considered that the largest block, above the very loos block, is sufficiently large (and god knows how large in total) that "lowering it" is not something I'd be attached to the other end of... it has to be hundreds of pounds, at least. |
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Does anyone know how CDOT feels about the good Samaritans filling in any holes we make in the roadway? |