"Classic" Northeastern climbing areas?

Hi Max, I love the Adirondacks and wasn't intending to be dismissive, however for someone on a limited time schedule in April (with likely still early spring conditions and bird closures)and already thinking of the Gunks and New Hampshire destinations, then the ADKs might be considered a bit out of the way.For someone with more time visiting late summer through fall, yes, I'd definitely recommend the ADKs.

Ok, seriously don't even consider Birdsboro its an absolute pile of choss shit. You are better off going to a gym.

Alan Rubin wrote:In addition to the 'big' areas----Gunks, Rumney (for sport), North Conway, maybe the Adirondacks, there are a number of smaller, but still worthwhile areas that, depending on your route, you will pass quite close by while en route between these destinations, that could well be worth a day or at least a few hours of your time. For example the Connecticut traprock crags--Ragged Mountain is the best known, are not far off either I-91 or I-84, either likely routes of travel between the Gunks and the New Hampshire areas. A bit further north, Farley Ledge in Mass. is only a few miles from 91 and literally just off Route 2, the major east/west road through northern Mass. It is only a few minutes walk to the crag from the lot.The Bolton area in Vermont is another possibility, off I-89--the likely route between the Adirondacks and New Hampshire. Another very worthwhile, and unique, New England area, though quite a bit further away, is Acadia National Park up in Maine featuring excellent granite climbing either right above the Atlantic--Otter Cliff and Great Head, or overlooking it a from a bit inland--the Precipice on Champlain Mtn. A really beautiful place in good weather.Enjoy your visit.

&

Alan Rubin wrote:Hi Max, I love the Adirondacks and wasn't intending to be dismissive, however for someone on a limited time schedule in April (with likely still early spring conditions and bird closures)and already thinking of the Gunks and New Hampshire destinations, then the ADKs might be considered a bit out of the way.For someone with more time visiting late summer through fall, yes, I'd definitely recommend the ADKs.

They are calling for more significant snow this weekend.

Alan has decades of experience his input here should not be dismissed.
Thanx Alan.

Farley& Ragged Mnt are historic crags.
They lay south of the snow pack (Farley? not so much?) and come into season 1st,
before NH& ADK (think Icy trails & maybe frozen ankle deep mud)
while all are climbable, I think you could get warmer temps going South.

EDIT :
the Gunks,
IF YOU HAVE THE CA$H!', daypass , overnight plans, limited reservation only camping ,
some far from main area,
Couch, car bed & breakfast, ? A mix, is the best way to go.
, food drinks gasoline, can all seem. pricey.
Offer to pay for a meal & a round
you might find a yard to camp in.
, basically gotta pay some way not, all $$$. ,
Maybe because of this the very do able day trip also makes the Gunks
Seem like the place to invest time.
would be my choice to have a fun single drive visit,
(3.5 hrs, drive, short for you? coming from colorado?) . . . Ymmv,
the weather will do what it will do. . .

I hope you get a solid week of beautiful weather and are able to check out all the best the Northeast has to offer. But if it's actively raining or things are just generally wet and seeping you can always get some awesome climbing in. The always-dry climbing tends to be 5.11 and up because it's steep on cliff sections that are capped with roofs.

Waimea at Rumney. Technosurfing and its neighbors are always dry
Sundown. Eyeless in Gaza, Mithras, and many others are always dry
Shagg Crag. Out of control awesome steep sport climbs that stay dry in rain (however there may be some seepage)

The bouldering at Pawtuckaway is excellent and dries really fast after rain.

Help him out, experts on other areas.
Do the Dacks have always-dry spots? The King Wall?
What always stays dry at the Gunks? Plenty of steep rock there!

Luke Lindeman wrote:South Central PA has a solid bouldering scene if you're into that. Governor Stable and Mount Gretna are great places for some diabase bouldering.

+1 for these two areas, as they're my home turf lol.

Also check out Whiskey Springs. Small area, but some fun climbs for sure.

Everybody's said about everything, and Al Rubin pretty much hit the nail on the head about the weather, but I'll add a few things about the Northeast that haven't been mentioned:

Driving: While areas here can be physically close "as the crow flys", such as the 'dacks and North Conway, the drive between can be exasperating to those not accustomed to secondary roads. For example, 'dacks to NoConway, takes about 5 hrs. That's because it's an East West traverse. Except for the MA-turnpike, way down south in MA, there's tough going East to West in New England.

Grades: Grades may be a bit inconsistent area-to-area, but are usually fairly consistent within one area. If you get to the 'dacks you'll see.

Beta: In the 'dacks try the Mountaineer (store) and/or Ed Palen's Adirondack Rock & River (bed & breakfast, plus Ed's the greatest on Beta). In North Conway, IME (International Mt Equipment, store) is run by climbers, also an EMS store. Of course, both places have several guide services.

Someone mentioned Whitehorse and the Courmier-Magness (5.6 friction) and "do in approach shoes"..agreed, but if it's in your grade range, take your shoes to do the new 5.10 variant in the upper section...but beware, the 'crux' may be the 5.7-5.8 approaching the 1st bolt.

Acadia, while beautiful, is quite a bit out-of-the-way driving-time-wise; and also the cliffs on the water's edge I can't believe wouldn't be rather cool, given the ocean temps this time of year.

Have Fun...!

Alan Rubin wrote:Hi Max, I love the Adirondacks and wasn't intending to be dismissive, however for someone on a limited time schedule in April (with likely still early spring conditions and bird closures)and already thinking of the Gunks and New Hampshire destinations, then the ADKs might be considered a bit out of the way.For someone with more time visiting late summer through fall, yes, I'd definitely recommend the ADKs.

No offense taken, Al. I just think it's funny that the Adirondacks always seem to get mentioned as some sort of ugly stepbrother of the Gunks and New Hampshire considering the number and quality of the routes.

Rich Brereton wrote: Do the Dacks have always-dry spots? The King Wall?

P1 Kingdom come is always dry, as is the 5.12a toprope to the right. Four Guns Blazing stays dry in a rain later in the year but is probably seeping right now. P1 Elusive Dream is always dry (and actually really fun, albeit short) but the roof is shallow enough that if it's actively raining you get water in your chalkbag. I think the corner of Another Whack And Dangle Job stays dry if you can traverse into it, but don't quote me on that.

Shagg is good for colder days.
YOu can always find dry stuff at Rumney. And if you can't, it won't make much difference unless you really wanna crush.

Former VT resident, new to the Philly area as of a couple years ago, so I can speak to both.

As folks mentioned, the rope climbing in Southeastern PA is a giant, vacuous waste of petrified kitty litter. That being said, the bouldering scene in southeastern PA is solid, and you won't find better stone that Triassic Diabase. Really. Not joking.

The Dacks are wonderful, quiet, varied, etc, etc; however the weather is so fickle (and being that it'll still be early season), you may want to avoid it all together. Shagg in Maine is THE best place for fun, steep, safe sport climbing--if you climb 5.12. Rumney is great fun, but s bit of a gym. There are plenty of great treasures in VT (the 82 and Bone Mt.), yet, much like the Dacks, you never know what you're going to get weather-wise.

In all honesty, I'd consider driving to the New, better yet, the Red. The weather will be miles better, both are nearly equi-distant to Philly as the mentioned New England areas, and the style choices you'll have at your disposal are--dare I say--better than New England. I'll leave it at that.

Chris Duca wrote:dare I say--better than New England.

YOU DARED

da toz wrote:So what I am gathering is both Cathedral and Whitehorse are right outside of North Conway. Seems like a winner. What about the Adirondacks? I've heard whispers of greatness... Anyone want to throw down their top 5 climbs in the NE region?? Also to all, thanks for the input so far, much appreciated!!

Dacks suck. Stay away.

Seriously though, hit the Gunks and NH, you will climb plenty there. If you come back again, hit the Dacks. It's great to sample but unlike Cathedral and Whitehorse (and even Rumney and Canon) and the Gunks, the climbing in the Dacks is spread out and often harder to get to.

The main reason I'm advising against the Dacks is because while the Gunks are essentially on route to NH (sort of) the Dacks are way off route. It takes 4 hours to get from Burlington to Gorham (or thereabouts, 5+ from Lake Placid). Meanwhile, it takes about 4.5 hours to get to Gorham from New Paltz.

If it was me, I'd want to maximize quality time vs spending a lot of time driving.

Chris Duca wrote: The weather will be miles better, both are nearly equi-distant to Philly as the mentioned New England areas, and the style choices you'll have at your disposal are--dare I say--better than New England. I'll leave it at that.

I'd agree with that. Seneca and the New, IMO, are the better bets.

That said, I've been climbing rock in the Gunks since January 29th...and have a few days in the Southern ADK under my belt as well.

There is dry rock in the Northeast, but you will see better weather (maybe peak weather) in WV right now. Or best of both worlds, head to Seneca for half a week and the Gunks the other half. Both are similar, with Senecal having more vertical features and the gunks more horizontal.

J. Serpico wrote:The main reason I'm advising against the Dacks is because while the Gunks are essentially on route to NH (sort of) the Dacks are way off route. It takes 4 hours to get from Burlington to Gorham (or thereabouts, 5+ from Lake Placid). Meanwhile, it takes about 4.5 hours to get to Gorham from New Paltz. If it was me, I'd want to maximize quality time vs spending a lot of time driving.

This is just flat out wrong.

I've been driving from Keene Valley to the Gunks pretty regularly in 3 hours from driveway to parking lot. I don't drive more than 10 mph over the speed limit.

Keene Valley to to base of Cathedral Ledge is exactly 4 hours.

Northern NJ/NYC (once you're out of the city) to Keene Valley is 3.5 hours if you're not traveling at rush hour. It's entirely highway driving and pretty cruiser and brainless to do.

The same starting point to North Conway is over 5 hours. (yet this is a better/easier choice?)

Not sure at all why people get this irrational opinion that the Adirondacks are light-years away from civilization...

If I were you, I'd keep an eye on the weather and not make any concrete plans until you can get a decent forecast. Any of the single major areas would have enough climbing to keep you busy for a week, especially if you figure on a couple rain days... or you could spend a rain day in the car going from one place to another and scouting things out. (ADK to conway, for example). But it is certainly possible that you could be looking at wet conditions a large percentage of time in one place, so keeping your options open and not forgetting about the Red and New would be a good idea I think. I'd say it would be better to climb at a less-than-classic crag that's dry than a great area that only has a couple dry routes.

Also, take a look at NEclimbs.com to get an idea of conditions in New Hampshire. They've started ice climbing again over there.

And, I might be available to climb depending on a lot of things... Let me know if you are passing through VT or Northern NH and maybe we can find something good
Ira

ClimbLikeAGirl wrote: This is just flat out wrong. I've been driving from Keene Valley to the Gunks pretty regularly in 3 hours from driveway to parking lot. I don't drive more than 10 mph over the speed limit. Keene Valley to to base of Cathedral Ledge is exactly 4 hours. Northern NJ/NYC (once you're out of the city) to Keene Valley is 3.5 hours if you're not traveling at rush hour. It's entirely highway driving and pretty cruiser and brainless to do. The same starting point to North Conway is over 5 hours. (yet this is a better/easier choice?) Not sure at all why people get this irrational opinion that the Adirondacks are light-years away from civilization...

+1

I drive to the Gunks, Whites and the Adirondacks from time to time. I also head to WV. From Baltimore it's a 4-4:30 hour drive to the Gunks. 7 hours to Keene Valley and 9:30 to North Conway.

It takes 4.5 hours to drive to Seneca and 7.5 to the New.

Philly is about 2 hours north of me. I would think the New would be a long drive from Philly.

If you are going to drive from NH to the ADK you might want to pick up Tough Schist in print or Rakkup and look at VT crags en route. Deer's Leap is a really nice place to spend the day, great routes, and the landscape is classic NE. There's plenty more up there too. And you might have better ADK luck if you look for crags on the southern edge of the park instead of the high peaks, but YMMV.

ClimbLikeAGirl wrote: This is just flat out wrong. I've been driving from Keene Valley to the Gunks pretty regularly in 3 hours from driveway to parking lot. I don't drive more than 10 mph over the speed limit. Keene Valley to to base of Cathedral Ledge is exactly 4 hours. Northern NJ/NYC (once you're out of the city) to Keene Valley is 3.5 hours if you're not traveling at rush hour. It's entirely highway driving and pretty cruiser and brainless to do. The same starting point to North Conway is over 5 hours. (yet this is a better/easier choice?) Not sure at all why people get this irrational opinion that the Adirondacks are light-years away from civilization...

Wow. Now I know why I avoid crags with people. If KV ADK climbers have their panties in a bunch this much, best to avoid them. I've seen this before when I mentioned the SOuthern ADK has some really good climbing (actually, I said just as good, ooops) and the KV clan went ballistic. Talk about people that are screaming for attention. No one is putting down the KV area, all some of us said was that it probably wasn't the best use of time, especially since it wasn't on his primary plans. No one talked him out of it. Ironically, this explanation is coming from a guy that spends almost every weekend i'm in NY in the KV region from May-Sept.

So moving on to the accusations: Not sure what I said was flat out wrong. Since I've only driven from Burlington to Gorham once, I'll default to you on that. But 4 hours seems a little optimistic to Cathedral from Keene Valley. I drive VT backroads pretty aggressively, take dirt short cuts in both NH and VT, and still, if you hit a line of cars it might add an hour to any trip. 4 hours is best case during the waking hours. Also, a lot of trips in VT vary based on route. Using Google maps or your GPS doesn't always yield the best one.

Now, please show me where I said the drive from New Paltz to KV was like 12 hours or something? Since I live exactly equidistant from the Gunks and Keene Valley, and i'm 1.5 hours driving exactly the speed limit, I'd say provided you don't stop and don't get stuck behind someone on 299 or 73, Keene Valley to the Gunks is probably about 3 hours on the nose. All I said was it adds an unreasonable amount of time between the Gunks and NH climbing and it's not really the best timing most years. I suppose this year that might not be true.

As far as recommending the New and Seneca, it was due to weather being probably just past peak. Depending on how you like it, I like 50s and 60s for rock, so Seneca in July isn't appealing. Seneca in April and October is. Sorry for recommending alternatives with ideal weather.

So everyone with their panties in a bunch....well you know what you can do.

J. Serpico wrote: Wow. Now I know why I avoid crags with people. If KV ADK climbers have their panties in a bunch this much, best to avoid them. I've seen this before when I mentioned the SOuthern ADK has some really good climbing (actually, I said just as good, ooops) and the KV clan went ballistic. Talk about people that are screaming for attention. No one is putting down the KV area, all some of us said was that it probably wasn't the best use of time, especially since it wasn't on his primary plans. No one talked him out of it. Ironically, this explanation is coming from a guy that spends almost every weekend i'm in NY in the KV region from May-Sept. So moving on to the accusations: Not sure what I said was flat out wrong. Since I've only driven from Burlington to Gorham once, I'll default to you on that. But 4 hours seems a little optimistic to Cathedral from Keene Valley. I drive VT backroads pretty aggressively, take dirt short cuts in both NH and VT, and still, if you hit a line of cars it might add an hour to any trip. 4 hours is best case during the waking hours. Also, a lot of trips in VT vary based on route. Using Google maps or your GPS doesn't always yield the best one. Now, please show me where I said the drive from New Paltz to KV was like 12 hours or something? Since I live exactly equidistant from the Gunks and Keene Valley, and i'm 1.5 hours driving exactly the speed limit, I'd say provided you don't stop and don't get stuck behind someone on 299 or 73, Keene Valley to the Gunks is probably about 3 hours on the nose. All I said was it adds an unreasonable amount of time between the Gunks and NH climbing and it's not really the best timing most years. I suppose this year that might not be true.

If you seriously can't handle someone (maybe especially a woman?) telling you that you're wrong, in no particularly harsh way, but in a quite factual-from experience-having done this sort of thing fairly often-on the regular-sort of way, perhaps it would be best to just walk away. I have a no-nonsense policy when dealing with egotistic macho guys.

Please note that I quoted only the section of your post that I believe is incorrect, not necessarily the entire thing (although I might...).

I do disagree that that you say the ADKs are "out of the way" from driving to North Conway, but this is coming from the gal who decided we should take a detour to J-Tree from Red Rocks before heading to Granite Mountain. A 4 hour detour in my opinion is a NBD sort of thing, especially if you can line up your travel with crappy weather, of which there's plenty of in the NE this time of year.

I will also add, that my partner and I actually know what an alpine start is and frequently hit the road sometime between 4 - 6 AM. This is the best way to avoid traffic, enjoy your coffee, and get where your going with plenty of daylight left.

J. Serpico wrote: Wow. Now I know why I avoid crags with people. If KV ADK climbers have their panties in a bunch this much, best to avoid them. I've seen this before when I mentioned the SOuthern ADK has some really good climbing (actually, I said just as good, ooops) and the KV clan went ballistic. Talk about people that are screaming for attention. No one is putting down the KV area, all some of us said was that it probably wasn't the best use of time, especially since it wasn't on his primary plans. No one talked him out of it. Ironically, this explanation is coming from a guy that spends almost every weekend i'm in NY in the KV region from May-Sept. So moving on to the accusations: Not sure what I said was flat out wrong. Since I've only driven from Burlington to Gorham once, I'll default to you on that. But 4 hours seems a little optimistic to Cathedral from Keene Valley. I drive VT backroads pretty aggressively, take dirt short cuts in both NH and VT, and still, if you hit a line of cars it might add an hour to any trip. 4 hours is best case during the waking hours. Also, a lot of trips in VT vary based on route. Using Google maps or your GPS doesn't always yield the best one. Now, please show me where I said the drive from New Paltz to KV was like 12 hours or something? Since I live exactly equidistant from the Gunks and Keene Valley, and i'm 1.5 hours driving exactly the speed limit, I'd say provided you don't stop and don't get stuck behind someone on 299 or 73, Keene Valley to the Gunks is probably about 3 hours on the nose. All I said was it adds an unreasonable amount of time between the Gunks and NH climbing and it's not really the best timing most years. I suppose this year that might not be true. As far as recommending the New and Seneca, it was due to weather being probably just past peak. Depending on how you like it, I like 50s and 60s for rock, so Seneca in July isn't appealing. Seneca in April and October is. Sorry for recommending alternatives with ideal weather. So everyone with their panties in a bunch....well you know what you can do.

Okay... simmer down dude. Take a deep breath and think about who's panties are in a bunch. Have you been taking debate lessons from NESteve or something? If I were to look at who's screaming for attention here it would probably be the guy pounding on the table because someone corrected his math on driving times. If by "looking for attention" you mean trying to promote the climbing here then yes, I think the Adirondacks deserve as much attention as the more famous areas to the south and east.

For the record ClimbLikeAGirl got the 4hrs from KV to Cathedral from me. It's a drive I estimate I've made well over 100 times in the last 20 years so I think I have a good idea of the time I'm shooting for. Your time may vary. If you're looking to get to North Conway quickly your first mistake is driving through Gorham, I always have better luck on 302 than 2.

I'm not sure why you're so wound up just because someone has a different opinion than you about what constitutes a reasonable amount of driving. Hypothetically though: 3hrs from the Gunks to Keene Valley and 4 hrs to North Conway translates to 7hrs total driving time and 390 miles, mileage taken from Google Maps. Gunks to North Conway comes in at 6 hrs and 350 miles from the same source. That's 1 hour, and 40 miles difference taking in a day or two climbing around Chapel Pond in addition to the two other areas. If I were planning a road-trip that much extra driving to sample another area wouldn't even faze me... but you're welcome to do what you like. As for where you said it was "like 12 hours or something" from KV to New Paltz I'm not sure where anyone accused you of saying that. Source?

To the point of being in/out of season: like I said before, watching the weather this time of year is critical to not getting hosed. The OP's trip is still a week out and a lot can change for the better or worse but, with the exception of minor variances in storm paths, my experience says if Keene Valley is unclimbable North Conway is likely to be too, no point in heading there either. If nobody else made it clear enough Cannon should be crossed off the list right now. I haven't climbed at Seneca or The New enough to have a valid opinion of whether or not that's a worthwhile alternative, I seem to recall both being nice in April but that was a few years ago.

Like ClimbLikeAGirl I'm constantly amazed that people have this false belief that the Adirondacks are off the beaten path and out in the middle of nowhere and totally inconvenient to get to. There is a major highway running through the park directly from NYC, you know. As I've pointed put in several previous discussions, the right end of the Trapps is farther from your car than many Adirondack crags, certainly the ones any first-time visitor would be checking out.

As for the other thread you're still bent out of shape about years later: I certainly never said that the southern Adirondacks don't have equally good climbing, what I said, or meant, was that (with all due respect) maybe you're not the guy with the experience to say what "crags aren't made of gold." (If you're really up here climbing every weekend, all summer I'm surprised I haven't run into you yet... maybe I have. (?)) I will maintain that with the exception of the easier routes at Crane (I honestly think Crane Mt. rivals the Gunks for climbers looking for good 5.8 and under routes, but that's a different topic) none of the southern areas have the same QUANTITY of routes that can be easily accessed from a single campsite as Chapel Pond does. If you can name another area in the Adirondacks where you can park your car and spend a week climbing quality routes (including multi-pitch) traveling only on foot from your campsite I want to know about it so I can go check it out. Thus I do, and will continue to, recommend that a first-time visitor hit my neck of the woods first before exploring other areas.

It's interesting, peoples' perceptions. Let's see how far the Adirondacks are.

Two things, first.

First, back to our OP. da toz, I clicked on your mountainproject profile, which tells me you're 24 years old and coming from Durango, Colorado. So this tells me that first, you're not hurting for climbing, and secondly, you're young. So, dear MPers, this suggests two things to me:
1) He's not hurting for climbing at home and doesn't need to be steered toward a justifiably unfamous, medium quality (barely), PA crag.
2) He's making the pilgrimage to the big names. Imagine your 24-year-old self getting a business trip to San Francisco. Would you want to be told to go to Castle Rock or Mt Diablo? No, you'd want to go to Yosemite, even if it means 9 hours of driving to touch some wet granite in the rain. We've all been there. So if the OP wants to drive more and climb less -- just to check things out -- fine. That allows an informed return trip!

Second, the weather. As pointed out, weather trumps all at this point, especially with this truly bizarre winter-without-winter (El Nino?) followed by winter-in-April. My strongest advice to our OP would be, check the weather map and pick your direction based on that -- unless actually climbing is less important than checking out the rock, seeing the famous crag with your own eyes, seeing New Paltz, whatever.

Anyway, back to our perceptions of geography. I did a little Google Maps exercise which I think many will find instructive. Caveats about, this is Google Maps, it's without traffic, it doesn't include your secret dirt road shortcut, whatever.

Which is closer, Keene Valley (KV) or North Conway (NC)?
KV 2:26, NC 2:31 from Woodstock, VT
KV 3:11, NC 3:04 from Brattleboro, VT
KV 3:06, NC 3:46 from Springfield, MA
KV 3:30, NC 3:53 from Hartford, CT
KV 4:07, NC 4:11 from Old Saybrook, CT

So basically, if you are west of the Connecticut River, Keene Valley is closer. How far east is the Connecticut River? Well, on I-95, it's 102 miles from the George Washington Bridge east to Old Saybrook, CT.