Technical hard climbing or physically hard climbing?

Healyje wrote:how the term has always been used in climbing.

Well if we're going to get this deep into semantics and definitions, I would like to point out that your use of always is incorrect in this sentence. The canonical use of always means there are no exceptions. In this thread there are at least three people who use the word technical (relating to climbing routes) differently than you. So it appears you would also like to redefine always to mean - what Healyje thinks, no matter how many differing opinions there are.

this shit is hilarious. keep up the good work guys

Here is a list of moves that you normally have to teach a climber to do drop knee, heel hook, gaston, lieback, mantel, undercling. Sure they may seem like common knowledge to you as you are climbing but they aren't. And how you use them and many other types of moves while climbing get better the more you do them. Some are more obvious than others and alot of people will figure some of them out quickly without anyone telling them, but others are something that require teaching the proper way to do them.

Maybe others can add more non-technical moves that everyone who ever starts climbing instantly knows how to do. (lets try to avoid some really common technical elements of climbing like trying to keep your arms straight to avoid burning out and other foot placement stuff that is just extremely common knowledge and everyone I have ever taken climbing knows this as nature)

I have compiled a short list here for argument. These are technically not techniques, but more techniques you can technically use to do climbing - according to the real world (not MTV)

jamming, finger locks, ring locks, gaston, chicken wing, arm bar, chimney moves, high knees, friction holds, reverse cowgirl, stemming, using your feet (if your not an 11 yr old girl who do this naturally), not overgripping, placing gear, not barn dooring, toe hooking, dynamic belaying, building anchors, simul-climbing, two person rappelling, tieing knots, wearing the right gear (bro tanks, arc'teryx pants, and la sportiva solutions duh, with a knit cap no doubt-style is fo sho a technique),

My all time favorite technique - "Putting your foot on that little thing thats outside your right knee and up a little, no, not that far, a little lower, ... no to your other right... yea thats it... now trust it....."
Crossing over, switching feet, matching hands,
the alabama hot pocket... and the Z jay....
I might have missed a few things, here guys help me out..
and if you have to ask about the Z jay..... you probably cant afford it.

goingUp and ViperScale wrote:...jamming, finger locks, ring locks, gaston, chicken wing, arm bar, chimney moves, high knees, friction holds, reverse cowgirl, stemming, using your feet, not overgripping, not barn dooring, toe hooking, drop knee, heel hook, gaston, lieback, mantel, undercling...

All technique. And all should be a given in your arsenal at a certain point - pretty much the stuff of basic and advanced rockcraft and they all get used on dead simple and technical routes alike. But none of them will do you any good if you can't figure out or protect the moves - either one of which is how you know you've strayed onto something technical.

Healyje wrote:I've never done a route for the sake of difficulty - physical, emotional (R/X), or technical. All my FAs were put up solely because I got obsessed with some aspect of the route aesthetics and some just happened to turn out to be physically, emotionally or technically difficult or all three. But 'difficulty' for it's own sake in all three realms I find boring beyond words - a route has always had to have more than that going for it for me to bother.

Given the above, it's easy to see how you arrived at the below.

Healyje wrote: If it's just about strength, precision and control without having to seriously engage your brain to figure things out then it's not technical - it's just hard.

Plenty of subconscious brain engagement is required to effectively learn/perfect/execute even seemingly simple movements. Logic reasoning isn't the only way of seriously engage one's brain.

Healyje wrote: A perfectly vertical, straight, parallel-sided 50' 3/4" crack requires precision, control and good technique

Or you can be brutally strong with only OK execution of techniques. That, however, does not work in a lot of cases (tend to have highly directional holds). And I would tend to call those type of moves technicals.

Healyje = troll

What about the climbing that requires nothing but finger strength? Also Healyje you can't honestly say crack climbing requires skill, it's pure forearm strength and pain tolerance.

that guy named seb wrote:What about the climbing that requires nothing but finger strength? Also Healyje you can't honestly say crack climbing requires skill, it's pure forearm strength and pain tolerance.

once you know how to jam and are comfortable jamming, yes its just strength and pain tolerance. But first you have to learn the different hand/finger/arm/foot techniques for the size you want to climb.

eli poss wrote: once you know how to jam and are comfortable jamming, yes its just strength and pain tolerance. But first you have to learn the different hand/finger/arm/foot techniques for the size you want to climb.

That's like saying there's technique to crimping or hammering a nail, just because it's a movement doesn't mean it requires technique.

The difference is, it's intuitive to crimp and most climbers figure it out on their own. Jams often require teaching or at least instructions from an experience climber. Most climbers won't usually figure out how to jam (or at least with good form) on their own without reading a book. Face climbing techniques are fairly straightforward most of the time

On the other hand, I would consider both crimping and jamming to be a technique but jamming a more complex technique

that guy named seb wrote: That's like saying there's technique to crimping or hammering a nail, just because it's a movement doesn't mean it requires technique.

There is definitely technique to hammering a nail...

Don't hammer to hard too early or you can bend the nail, hold the hammer properly to ensure maximum mechanical advantage, etc. Literally everything has a technique to it. How efficiently you execute those techniques is how well you complete the task at hand.

Sometimes, you can complete the task without focusing on technique as much. You can successfully hammer in a nail without using the proper technique, you just might hurt your finger or damage whatever you are hammering the nail into, or something like that.

This is true of climbing as well.