Critique my Denali Layers

I wanted to see if I could get your feedback on some gear.I'm climbing the West Buttress on May 18th with Mountain Trip and wanted to get your thoughts on a my layering and parka. I am going with Mountain Trip and they recommended the Patagonia Fitz Roy... it seemed insanely light but their reasoning was that you will be wearing a belay jacket and a bunch of other layers underneath.

My current layering scheme is as follows:

Base - Merino Longsleever
Mid - Patagonia Cap 4 Midlayer
Windshirt- Arcteryx Squamish Windshirt
Active Puffy (over or under windshirt)- Arcteryx Atom LT
Belay/Break/Wait Over-Jacket - Arcteryx Nuclei

Before you react to the fact that I have two puffies, let me share this article that gave me the idea- mountaintrip.com/gear-revie…

For summit day I would wear all of the layers above and throw a parka over it. I narrowed it down to the following (partially because I can get discounts):

Pata Fitz Roy ($245)
536g
180g of 800 down
20d Nylon Ripstop DWR
Stitch through

MH Nilas ($340)
729g
215 g. Q.Shield™ 850 down
Airshield 15d 2L
Box baffle torso/stitch through arms

Rab Posistron ($200)
694g
275g of 800 down
N30p Windstopper Gore
Box baffle torso/stitch through arms

Gasherbrum ($250)
785g
380g of 750 down
He30 Shell
Box baffle throughout

Arc T Ceres ($330)
850g
220 g of 850 down
100 g of coreloft in shoulders/hood
N40p Windstopper Gore
Box baffle throughout

There Ceres seems like an AWESOME jacket and I can get it for a steal. I'm just worried about weight. Not sure the coreloft is necessary at that altitude.

Thoughts or advice?

Do you already have your mid layers? Maybe moving to something like the cerium LT would make you feel better about the lighter parka.

I have both the nilas and the fitzroy-i personally prefer the nilas by far for cold temps. Despite both being baffled, the nilas feels more stout, and has more loft. i prefer the fitzroy for temps above 0-10F and the nilas for temps below 0f. I don't own the ceres but have played with it-definitely doesn't feel as warm as the nilas or the fitzroy.

@BrianVerick - Thanks for the response! I do have the layers already. The guy at ArcT was a guide and felt that the nuclei would be better because it doesn't have cold spots (stitch through) and that the coreloft would serve me better at lower altitudes. I was definitely interested in getting the Cerium.

@Akfaultline - Thanks! Yes the Nilas is definitely attractive. I haven't had a chance to play with one yet. I'm a bit surprised that you felt it was warmer given it has more loft overall and has box-baffled arms as opposed to stitch through found in the Nilas. I'll definitely take a closer look at the Nilas. How do you think it compares to the Positron?

Thanks again for your thoughts and feedback guys!

Nilas is sweet, don't buy anything without dry treated down!!!!!!!!

That treatment means more than most features.

I had the Nilas for a whole season of ice and I'm glad I bought it from Backcountry.com, because after 3-4 months, I sent it back. It's just not that warm and I found the hood doesn't accommodate a climbing helmet very well. The outer material is bomber and the "state orange" color is awesome.

For references, I live and climb in upstate, New York. Most of my outings are in the Adirondacks where it's very common to climb in 10ºF or below. I recommend paying close attention to fill power and fill weight in your potential jackets. As mentioned above, don't buy anything without hydrophobic down.

Obviously, the higher the fill power and the higher the fill weight = a warmer down belay coat.

For belays, I ended up buying the Rab Continuum Hoody (down) and the Arc'teyrx Dually Belay Parka (synthetic). I haven't had a problem with severe cold with this combination (10ºF & below). Most of the time, I throw on the Dually and it's been enough for static belays. If it's windy or I'm stuck in the shade for a while, I throw on the Rab & then the Dually. I can throw on a Nano Puff if needed, synthetic vest, etc ...

If you go with the Nilas Jacket, I highly recommend buying an 850 fill power down sweater to wear with the Nilas. I just found it isn't that warm by itself.

I've found Rab to make an excellent down belay jacket and have been very pleased with their craftsmanship.

I dig my Fitzroy and will be taking it to AK this summer, albeit just for lower stuff on the Ruth/Toke. I've been pretty stoked on it on chilly days climbing around Bozeman and Ouray and on overnight ski tours, but I don't think I've taken it below 0. It's warmer than the DAS if kept dry, which is what a couple of my buddies have rolled with on Denali, but they were cold often, so YMMV.

Read this thread: mountainproject.com/v/criti…

Orphan26 wrote: Before you react to the fact that I have two puffies, let me share this article that gave me the idea- mountaintrip.com/gear-revie… For summit day (...)

cool discussion, gear freaking is always fun! and I read the article above with interest: it talks about the patagonia nano puff as part of layering. I totally love the nano puff and used it in deed as layer under a gore tex jacket in both patagonia and AK but have to say I am not sure how suitable it is for layering: even when I am not sweating hard (it only feels ok warm) my nano puff is often really wet from condensation.

anybody else made this experience?

ps: yes, I tried two different outer layers (patagonia and mountain hardware) to work on condensation, no improvement

I don't understand needing a Arc Nuclei in addition to an Atom LT. The Nuclei probably won't fit well over that stuff unless you size up. The Nuclei is a jacket that seems more at home "belaying" alpine rock routes in the lower 48 in the spring/summer/fall over a single base layer or wind shirt. It would probably be a better combo to get an older Atom SV (discontinued) or newer Atom AR to wear over the LT for additional warmth. Arc'teryx Solo or Dually hoodies would also be reasonable options, but if you got the Dually you could probably skimp on some other layers because it is so warm. It also depends how hot/cold your normally run, and what the pace of your group will be. I use R1, Atom LT, Atom SV, Squamish in combos for warmth layers quite frequently.

Some other thoughts here:
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Perhaps I will stay away from the Nilas.

The montbell Permafrost looks like another good option but apparently Montbell stopped using outside vendors so it is impossible to find on sale.

Linnaeus wrote:I don't understand needing a Arc Nuclei in addition to an Atom LT. The Nuclei probably won't fit well over that stuff unless you size up. The Nuclei is a jacket that seems more at home "belaying" alpine rock routes in the lower 48 in the spring/summer/fall over a single base layer or wind shirt. It would probably be a better combo to get an older Atom SV (discontinued) or newer Atom AR to wear over the LT for additional warmth. Arc'teryx Solo or Dually hoodies would also be reasonable options, but if you got the Dually you could probably skimp on some other layers because it is so warm. It also depends how hot/cold your normally run, and what the pace of your group will be. I use R1, Atom LT, Atom SV, Squamish in combos for warmth layers quite frequently. Some other thoughts here: coldthistle.blogspot.com/20… coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

I did size up and it fits pretty well. It is a Nuclei SV and the guy there said it is pretty weather resistant. Maybe I'll take a closer look at the Dually.

Has anyone played with the RAB Positron at all?

Orphan26 wrote:Has anyone played with the RAB Positron at all?

My local gear shop had the Rab Positron Jacket this year & I was able to try it on. Very well built and probably capable, but if it were me and I was headed to Denali or climbing at elevation in Alaska, I'd buy a fully-baffled jacket & not one with stitched-through baffling.

The Positron has stitched-through baffling in the arms. The arms feel a little thin to me on the Positron. Rab says it cuts down on weight and price, but I'd gladly pay the extra cash for the reliable warmth of baffled construction.

Dane at Cold Thistle has reviewed the MontBell Jacket you mentioned, so you may want to take a look on his website. Also, there has been discussion about the Positron on this website this past ice season. A couple users of the Positron have mentioned the "thin" arms as the downfall of this jacket.

I use the Positron as a winter belay jacket for ice and rock climbing. I've never noticed that the arms don't have enough insulation for what I'm doing. I always run cold, so I just throw it over everything when I get off my climb. Fantastic fit for me. I'm 6'2", 150 lbs and I wear a Medium in it, and it fits well over all my size Medium climbing layers. It's quite long and the double zipper plus bottom snap means that I can belay out of the bottom of the zipper with the jacket still closed. It also has a great helmet compatible hood.

Linnaeus wrote:I don't understand needing a Arc Nuclei in addition to an Atom LT. The Nuclei probably won't fit well over that stuff unless you size up. The Nuclei is a jacket that seems more at home "belaying" alpine rock routes in the lower 48 in the spring/summer/fall over a single base layer or wind shirt. It would probably be a better combo to get an older Atom SV (discontinued) or newer Atom AR to wear over the LT for additional warmth. Arc'teryx Solo or Dually hoodies would also be reasonable options, but if you got the Dually you could probably skimp on some other layers because it is so warm. It also depends how hot/cold your normally run, and what the pace of your group will be. I use R1, Atom LT, Atom SV, Squamish in combos for warmth layers quite frequently. Some other thoughts here: coldthistle.blogspot.com/20… coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

He refers to it as a Nuclei SV, so I assume Orphan means the Nuclei AR. The Nuclei AR is warmer than the Atom SV/AR and probably the Solo. I have one, and I think it's the best midweight synthetic jacket available right now.

I've never been to Denali, but I have some comments on a couple jackets mentioned. The Gasherbrum is in a class of its own compared to the others on the list. It's by far the warmest. The Mountain Equipment K7 is almost as warm, but the K7 has a water resistant shell similar to the other water resistant options listed.

Brian Abram wrote: He refers to it as a Nuclei SV, so I assume Orphan means the Nuclei AR. The Nuclei AR is warmer than the Atom SV/AR and probably the Solo. I have one, and I think it's the best midweight synthetic jacket available right now. I've never been to Denali, but I have some comments on a couple jackets mentioned. The Gasherbrum is in a class of its own compared to the others on the list. It's by far the warmest. Almost as warm is the Mountain Equipment K7, but it has a water resistant shell similar to the other water resistant options listed.

Hi Brian, unfortunately it is an SV. The thought being that I will have a windshirt directly under it. The nuclei should still be warmer than the SV as it doesn't have the large underarm vents.

The Gahserbrum definitely looks attractive. I'm a bit bummed that they used 750.. it seems they could have saved a bit of weight/volume. I suppose the 750 can't be much different than the 800. Perhaps the gasherbrum is the way to go!

Orphan26 wrote: The Gahserbrum definitely looks attractive. I'm a bit bummed that they used 750.. it seems they could have saved a bit of weight/volume. I suppose the 750 can't be much different than the 800. Perhaps the gasherbrum is the way to go!

http://www.facewest.co.uk/Down-Fill-Power.html

my understanding is the EU system to measure FP (which mountain equipment uses) should be bumped up to compare versus the US FP ratings

Orphan26 wrote:The montbell Permafrost looks like another good option but apparently Montbell stopped using outside vendors so it is impossible to find on sale.

FWIW a Montbell Permafrost got me to the summit of Mt Logan (the one in the Yukon). 670g, 255g of 800 down, 30d Gore Windstopper, box baffle throughout. At $349 it's not a whole lot more expensive than the others on your list. It's nice to get discounts, but that shouldn't be a key criteria for this kind of gear.

750 euro fill is somewhere between 800-850 US fill power. I didn't know a Nuclei SV existed. Is it a prototype?

Sorry Nuclei FL. Typo.