Poll: Whats your opinion on dogs at the crag?

People that don't like dogs at the crags need to chill. Most dogs are just fine and don't bother anyone except the easily bothered (which, if it wasn't dogs bothering them it would be something else). Don't bring your dog if it is aggressive or as annoying as some anti-dog posters on this thread. If you bring your dog then pick up their poop and carry it out and we're all cool. People who don't like dogs at the crags should just stay at home and stop annoying everyone.

Leave your dogs at home. They are a giant pain for you and everyone around. I dont want to hear you yelling yourself hoarse shouting commands at your dog to keep it in control. STFU.

Furthermore dogs are always barking and/or growling at me at the crag when I walk past their owners set up. Pisses me off. I stare the dog down because I have more right to be there than it does and it obviously needs a lesson in respect. If your dog charges me im going to beat the hell out of it until it runs away. If I have time I will pick up a hand sized rock and bash it in the head and repeat until said dog scampers away.

Moreover your retard dog is stomping all over my stuff. Look, you might think its cute or "its just a dog, chill" but not me. I dont want anyone/thing stepping on my rope. GTFO of here damn dog. I wont kick your dog in this situation but I will tell it to fuck off and if it doesnt listen I will place my foot on it and firmly push it off my stuff. Hopefully off a cliff.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am a lion! Hear me roar! Meow..

grog m wrote:Leave your dogs at home. They are a giant pain for you and everyone around. I dont want to hear you yelling yourself hoarse shouting commands at your dog to keep it in control. STFU. Furthermore dogs are always barking and/or growling at me at the crag when I walk past their owners set up. Pisses me off. I stare the dog down because I have more right to be there than it does and it obviously needs a lesson in respect. If your dog charges me im going to beat the hell out of it until it runs away. If I have time I will pick up a hand sized rock and bash it in the head and repeat until said dog scampers away. Moreover your retard dog is stomping all over my stuff. Look, you might think its cute or "its just a dog, chill" but not me. I dont want anyone/thing stepping on my rope. GTFO of here damn dog. I wont kick your dog in this situation but I will tell it to fuck off and if it doesnt listen I will place my foot on it and firmly push it off my stuff. Hopefully off a cliff.

Wow. How do you really feel?
fifi

grog m wrote:Leave your dogs at home. They are a giant pain for you and everyone around. I dont want to hear you yelling yourself hoarse shouting commands at your dog to keep it in control. STFU. Furthermore dogs are always barking and/or growling at me at the crag when I walk past their owners set up. Pisses me off. I stare the dog down because I have more right to be there than it does and it obviously needs a lesson in respect. If your dog charges me im going to beat the hell out of it until it runs away. If I have time I will pick up a hand sized rock and bash it in the head and repeat until said dog scampers away. Moreover your retard dog is stomping all over my stuff. Look, you might think its cute or "its just a dog, chill" but not me. I dont want anyone/thing stepping on my rope. GTFO of here damn dog. I wont kick your dog in this situation but I will tell it to fuck off and if it doesnt listen I will place my foot on it and firmly push it off my stuff. Hopefully off a cliff.

$20 says in actual life your not 1/8 the jackass you profess to be here, cute rant

Alright, it's not that far fetched to use fMRI's and biochem and the scientific method to show that animals can react with a primary emotion, reflect and apply conscious thought, and then form things like opinions and secondary emotions. I've said my piece about dogs and am too lazy to summarize a bunch of research so go ahead and read for yourself. Try to not just google info that agrees with your opinion and see if you can come at it from an objective point of view.

When one of you shows that any animal can do that feel free to come show off your Nobel prize and I will concede that your dog loves or cares about you and feels bad for misbehaving. Good luck, ideas are proven wrong all the time and science has its limits, but there's no reason to think that will happen this time except for the fact that you want it to.

Until then, please don't force your annoying animal driven by nothing but instinct to breed and survive on the rest of us.

PS, we bred dogs when I was a kid and always had a few. I have seen what you perceive as higher level emotions and, sorry, there is still no reason to come to that conclusion. Other than wishful thinking.

limpingcrab wrote:Alright, it's not that far fetched to use fMRI's and biochem and the scientific method to show that animals can react with a primary emotion, reflect and apply conscious thought, and then form things like opinions and secondary emotions. I've said my piece about dogs and am too lazy to summarize a bunch of research so go ahead and read for yourself. Try to not just google info that agrees with your opinion and see if you can come at it from an objective point of view. When one of you shows that any animal can do that feel free to come show off your Nobel prize and I will concede that your dog loves or cares about you and feels bad for misbehaving. Good luck, ideas are proven wrong all the time and science has its limits, but there's no reason to think that will happen this time except for the fact that you want it to. Until then, please don't force your annoying animal driven by nothing but instinct to breed and survive on the rest of us. PS, we bred dogs when I was a kid and always had a few. I have seen what you perceive as higher level emotions and, sorry, there is still no reason to come to that conclusion. Other than wishful thinking.

Calmer than you are.

I think this topic has been talked out....

Crab: Come climb with me this summer in the Jungle! I will be with a Black Lab. You seem to spend too much time on these rants so I will lead. Observe the Lab watching and monitoring my emotions. Also observe his exits when "rock" is shouted. Also, note his leaps in the air when I lower. Also, say I have a point, when we tip beer bottles in a cheer, as my dog lays his head on my lap, eyes glued on me. You really need to see this! I know the science! I also know the dog. Take me up on this!

cragmantoo wrote:I think this topic has been talked out....

has this ever happened in the history of MP?

My dog is f'ing awesome and I'll keep bringing her climbing with me pretty much any time I feel like it. I won't bring my dog where it's illegal or if I'm multi-pitching, otherwise, I'm bringing her.
Too bad for all you cry baby dog haters. Pretty much nothing you can do about it. Maybe go back to the gym. No evil doggies in there to scare you away from your rad projects.

grog m wrote:Leave your dogs at home. They are a giant pain for you and everyone around. I dont want to hear you yelling yourself hoarse shouting commands at your dog to keep it in control. STFU. Furthermore dogs are always barking and/or growling at me at the crag when I walk past their owners set up. Pisses me off. I stare the dog down because I have more right to be there than it does and it obviously needs a lesson in respect. If your dog charges me im going to beat the hell out of it until it runs away. If I have time I will pick up a hand sized rock and bash it in the head and repeat until said dog scampers away. Moreover your retard dog is stomping all over my stuff. Look, you might think its cute or "its just a dog, chill" but not me. I dont want anyone/thing stepping on my rope. GTFO of here damn dog. I wont kick your dog in this situation but I will tell it to fuck off and if it doesnt listen I will place my foot on it and firmly push it off my stuff. Hopefully off a cliff.

What a complete Putz.

Crag dogs are perfectly fine provided they:

1. Don't bark at every person or other dog that walks up to the crag. I don't care if your dog only barks and doesn't bite, its F-ing anoying.

2: Don't walk all over ropes, gear, etc.

3. Are cleaned up behind after they shit. We all shit....that is fine, but make sure it is cleaned up.

dog breeding us a sick sport, keep it at home

grog m wrote: I dont want anyone/thing stepping on my rope. GTFO of here damn dog. I wont kick your dog in this situation.

In that situation, you shouldn't kick the dog, you should kick the owner. The dog is the symptom, not the problem...

Dogs at the crag certainly is a dog whistle topic on MP. Seven pages and no one has ask the mysterious OP who he is, where he's from, and what his intentions are for his survey. We'd all just rather argue about dogs. Robby, what is your intent? Are you planning to use your survey to influence local policy? If so, is a "national" survey of climbers the appropriate way to do so?

As to all the scientists poo pooling the degree of emotionality in dogs (and by extension non-human animals in general), Marc Bekoff and his friend Jane Goodall have some research that contradicts your assertions. Even Darwin stated that emotionality in non-human animals is not a matter of kind, but degree.
marcbekoff.com

David Rivers 1 wrote: Marc Bekoff and his friend Jane Goodall have some research that contradicts your assertions. Even Darwin stated that emotionality in non-human animals is not a matter of kind, but degree. marcbekoff.com

"By remaining open to the idea that many animals have rich emotional lives, even if we are wrong in some cases, little truly is lost. By closing the door on the possibility that many animals have rich emotional lives, even if they are very different from our own or from those of animals with whom we are most familiar, we will lose great opportunities to learn about the lives of animals with whom we share this wondrous planet."

Really nice scholarly discussion for anyone interested:
bioscience.oxfordjournals.o…
Or, better yet, get a dog and spend time with it & draw your own conclusions.

Eric Carlos wrote:Crag dogs are perfectly fine provided they: 1. Don't bark at every person or other dog that walks up to the crag. I don't care if your dog only barks and doesn't bite, its F-ing anoying. 2: Don't walk all over ropes, gear, etc. 3. Are cleaned up behind after they shit. We all shit....that is fine, but make sure it is cleaned up.

+1 That's pretty much all that needed to be said.