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Does Anyone Actually Enjoy Limestone Climbing?

Original Post
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

...because I have yet to. Granted, it's better than plastic, but that's about it. I've seen pictures of people climbing in gorgeous destinations like Potrero, Spain, Greece, Cuba, etc, and it always looks awesome...until I realize that it's limestone. My experience on limestone is that it's often slick, with horrible pro if you're trad climbing and crimpy, awkward climbing with poor feet. I feel like I have to climb several grades down on limestone compared to say sandstone and often get skeeved out by all of the sharp edges to fall on. I also find it overwhelming, because the walls tend to be highly featured, meaning there's lots of stuff to grab...but most of it is crap, lol. I can see how these qualities could be pluses if you're looking for a challenge (Most if not all of the 5.15s put up are on limestone), but for me it is just demoralizing.

So, does anybody enjoy limestone and actually seek it out (if given the choice for alternatives?)? Am I just forming an opinion based upon poor examples, or is there always a massochistic quality to climbing on limestone?

BobGray · · Salt Lake City, Utah · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 711

I enjoy limestone very much as well. It does seem like you are forming an opinion based on poor examples. Find some high quality limestone routes and you might have a change of heart, maybe not. Maybe it's just me, but I'm also the kind of climber who likes and seeks out off-widths and aid climbing........

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
Ted Pinson wrote:...because I have yet to. Granted, it's better than plastic, but that's about it. I've seen pictures of people climbing in gorgeous destinations like Potrero, Spain, Greece, Cuba, etc, and it always looks awesome...until I realize that it's limestone. My experience on limestone is that it's often slick, with horrible pro if you're trad climbing and crimpy, awkward climbing. I feel like I have to climb several grades down on limestone compared to say sandstone and often get skeeved out by all of the sharp edges to fall on. I also find it overwhelming, because the walls tend to be highly featured, meaning there's lots of stuff to grab...but most of it is crap, lol. I can see how these qualities could be pluses if you're looking for a challenge (Most if not all of the 5.15s put up are on limestone), but for me it is just demoralizing. So, does anybody enjoy limestone and actually seek it out (if given the choice for alternatives?)? Am I just forming an opinion based upon poor examples, or is there always a massochistic quality to climbing on limestone?
Yep, I absolutely love limestone and actively seek it out. To cover a few of your points:

Slick: Yep, limestone can get very polished and be slick, however, it can also be fairly gripy as well, it just depends, just think of the slick limestone as helping your footwork and technique out.

Trad climbing: Limestone is not a rock that is well suited for trad climbing, with limestone, sport is the name of the game.

Sharp edges: These are generally found on lower angle limestone, limestone doesn't really get good until it's overhanging.

Crimpy awkward climbing: I don't see how this is limestone specific at all, I've climbed routes that are crimpy and awkward in just about every kind of rock and have climbed 100's of limestone routes that are neither crimpy nor awkward.

Highly featured but nothing good: again, some limestone is, most of it isn't, where are you climbing? In my experience, most limestone tends to be featured similarly to many other types of rock, the one big exception to this where I have climbed has been Ten Sleep, That area would fit your description very well.

Overall, it sounds like you have a very limited perspective on limestone and need to experience other limestone areas before you make an overarching decision on whether you like it or not.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,705

River canyon limestone can be awesome!
Desert lime tends to be a little sharp, and lots of travel tends to polish it, but I've certainly been to some great areas & enjoyed it.

ScoJo · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 481

I've enjoyed the few limestone crags I've been to (shelf road, somewhere in France). It can be really slick on highly trafficked routes; I'll give you that.

btw Flatanger is granite and has a lot of 5.15s

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648

One more thing, this is not to call you out for being a crappy climber or something like that, but I just looked at your profile and see that you don't have any routes ticked that are harder than 5.10c (I may have missed some and you may not keep your tick list up to date or whatever). In general, limestone doesn't start to get good until you hit the 5.11 range, but it really doesn't start to shine until you are in at least the 5.12 range or higher. Maybe you just need to table limestone for a while until you are climbing a bit harder, then give it another try. You might find it much more enjoyable at the harder grades.

BrianWS · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 790

Climb an overhanging tufa or flow stone route and then form your opinion. The most amazing sport routes I have ever climbed were on this type of limestone.

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
BrianWS wrote:Climb an overhanging tufa or flow stone route and then form your opinion. The most amazing sport routes I have ever climbed were on this type of limestone.
Seriously, tufa routes are amazing, by far my favorite type of climbing.
Joe Wysznski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 207

Yes! I love limestone and seek it out over everything else. I used to live in Vegas and I would rather climb Mt. Charleston or any of the limestone crags over red rock sport routes any day. Limestone has the most varied climbing with so many different features, tons of different shaped holds. I agree for the most part that limestone routes aren't usually very good until you hit 5.11 and up with 5.12 being the grade where it really gets good. Overhanging limestone is amazing!

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60

I like it, though how much depends on where you climb. I've climbed it in the UK, which was fun but pretty polished, and probably not the best example of what limestone can offer. I spent three weeks in Arco, and the quality and variety was pretty nice. Very enjoyable to climb on. In contrast, I've been to places like the Utah Hills, outside of St. George, and just found it sharp and not very pleasant. The folks at the local climbing shop just raved over it, but I found it kind of meh. I think people hype it, thinking they're supposed to like it. But let's face it, it's not Buoux or Kalymnos.

Ryan Palo · · Bend, oregon · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 605

There's a continuum of limestone. My preference: grey, ruffle < porcelain < yellow, blockly < blue, tuffa. There are some outliers like the techy brown kind you find at the VRG, but it's rare. It's my experience that the grey kind sucks balls compared to the others. Im guessing you've ventured up a couple grey, ruffle slabs which are unfortunately more common here.

Sam Keller · · Mallorca, ES · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 30

Spent ten days climbing the limestone cave of El Chonta outside of Mexico City. CRAZY! Super fun, super hard, super tiring. Amazing! Maybe you are climbing world class sandstone and shitty limestone.....

I'm generally a sandstone climber, but limestone is so much fun in the winter when all I want to do is sports clamber.

Dallin Carey · · Missoula · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 177

I love limestone. Box Canyon in Idaho, one of my favorite places to climb, has some incredibly sharp limestone.

Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86

How is the Limestone in Lucerne Valley, Ca? Been wanting to head out there if it's worth it.

G Halsne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 1,487
JoeGaribay wrote:How is the Limestone in Lucerne Valley, Ca? Been wanting to head out there if it's worth it.
Its not "good"... Worth checking it out if your in the area. I spent a full day there, and the climbing itself is the culprit, not the limestone.

Also the meth dude at the end of the road is super creepy. n fact, all the surrounding encampments like engine block city are especially bizarre.

And now back to the topic....
G Halsne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 1,487
Fat Dad wrote: I think people hype it, thinking they're supposed to like it.
Lots of truth here.

I myself need to find and climb the *good stuff". I thought Maryjane and the Imaginator were much funner than a handful of stuff I climbed at the Grail.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

Indeed limestone trad blows and I wouldent even bother. Limestone sport is great if you're climbing something that's not polished. Polished limestone sucks.

Joe Wysznski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 207
G Halsne wrote: Lots of truth here. I myself need to find and climb the *good stuff". I thought Maryjane and the Imaginator were much funner than a handful of stuff I climbed at the Grail.
Yes, both Mt. C, outstanding examples of the goods! Euro Staycation!
Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
JoeGaribay wrote:How is the Limestone in Lucerne Valley, Ca? Been wanting to head out there if it's worth it.
Sucks ..... Joe, the best we have close by is the Kern Limestone.... its small but fun. You get these climbs that go out roofs, hanging on to these holes with your feet and hands.... and then some of it is just over vert... very pumpy stuff.

And to the OP.... all stone is sweet, you just need to adjust and enjoy the challenge to offers.
Chris Schmidt · · Fruita, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0

Ted I feel the exact same way, BUT haven't climbed much other than Rifle (which is super polished) and also I'm not able to climb 5.12 so that is pretty limiting.

Ten Sleep looks amazing I bet both of our opinions would change after a week up there.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50

If you are not very good at climbing you most likely have never been on good flowing and overhanging limestone. Simple as that. Most limestone climbs under 5.11+ totally suck, and nearly every one under 5.10 blows donkey balls, with a few exceptions. That's why so many people work on getting better instead of buying gear and posting on MP, so they can climb the good stuff. Without doubt, the best sport climbing is overhanging and flowing, tufa limestone.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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