Becoming a Mountain Guide

I was just saying you never know what opportunity you may pass up if you didn't have a college degree. I think the NY Dept. of Sanitation had good benefits and decent pay that is why many college graduates found that attractive, plus it's not a very bad job - it's outside, and you get to work snowplows when it snows!

As a naive high school student I didn't think there was much to learn about hiking or mountain climbing. Fast forward all these years later I can say I was terribly wrong. I still enjoy hiking casually and respect and admire those that go on to become guides for other more casual climbers like myself.

I'm a college professor, so might considered biased. I also guided while in grad school, during the wild-west period of guiding when the only skill required was the ability to find a stationery store that would print business cards.

Although there is a very broad spectrum of guiding lifestyles, I think it fair to suggest that they are less about being outdoors and climbing and more about dealing with a variety of people and personality types and somehow helping all of them to learn, progress, and achieve goals that may be modest from your perspective. I might add that the need to protect your body in order to protect your income will probably have some effect on your personal approach to climbing.

I'd urge you to at least finish a two-year college degree at a public institution. Life can be unpredictable. For example, all kinds of possible injuries could end a guiding season or your guiding career, or much as you think you will like it, you might discover that the day-to-day reality isn't what you imagined. Moreover, I think it is essential for guides to be able to promote themselves and their services on the internet, so the skills necessary to build and maintain a web page could be viewed as important for guiding. Getting some kind of two-year degree or certificate in the related skills would help your guiding business and also give you something marketable if you decide not to guide down the road.

I hope none of the negative eventualities I mentioned come to pass for you, but if they do, having nothing but a HS diploma will, as Dolgio illustrates, contract your income-earning opportunities and make life more difficult than it had to be.

Popsickle wrote:I understand that money would not be great and I am use to that, former military. I am essentially looking for something that I do love, which I love the outdoors. Something that is not mundane and the longer I attend school the more I realize a normal 9-5 is not for me.

Look at doing rigging for cell towers, wind mills etc. Outside work, using your climbing skills, pays better than being a guide. You can always also find some kind of job that gives you free time to guide on the side.

+1 for rgold!

Think about teaching! I know plenty of folks that teach and then guide during the summers. The summer is often the height of many guiding seasons and guiding for just the summer can help keep people from burning out. Teaching pay isn't great, but it's fun and you get some benefits

doligo wrote:I was just saying you never know what opportunity you may pass up if you didn't have a college degree. I think the NY Dept. of Sanitation had good benefits and decent pay that is why many college graduates found that attractive, plus it's not a very bad job - it's outside, and you get to work snowplows when it snows!

Your point is sound, it's just a funny example :)

These days I think getting certified in a trade like auto repair or plumbing is a better plan than a generic 2 year degree for most people and GI bill will pay for those kinds of training too AFAIK. But it obviously depends on individual preferences and goals.

An oldie but goodie: What's the difference between a mountain guide and a large pizza? The pizza feeds a family of four.

Jer wrote:These days I think getting certified in a trade like auto repair or plumbing is a better plan than a generic 2 year degree for most people...

A 2 year certificate of completion - it's a real stretch to call it a degree - is now what a high school diploma used to be in terms of employment prospects.

Jer wrote:But it obviously depends on individual preferences and goals.

+1

Stagg54 wrote: Look at doing rigging for cell towers, wind mills etc. Outside work, using your climbing skills, pays better than being a guide.

I was surprised that OSHA regulations allow unprotected climbing:

youtube.com/watch?v=LF5Ogmr…

Ahem, a college degree is not the only option. Learn a trade. You will work hard but learn and get paid at the same time. I make a very comfortable living as a welder. Used my GI Bill for school..hint hint.
I work 60 hours a week and have my weekends to climb(haha sometimes not) It's not the most ideal, but I'm saving a lot of money that will pay for trips and AMGA courses in the future.

My point, I guess, is that you don't have to follow previous advice here and spend tens of thousands of dollars in college in order Haha but if you want to, go for it. Skilled labor Apprenticeships are typically four years long and once you have your journey mans card, you can work anywhere, with anyone. Helpers(at the bottom of the pay scale, relatively unskilled) bring in $12-15/hr. Add in $70 per diem. A 60 hour week. Before taxes $1,260-1,470 per week! And you jest need to show up and work!

Industrial/commercial shutdowns (power plants, manufacturing, dams, etc) are almost year round (2-6 month jobs) and most of the contractors will pay for your hotel room and give you per diem. It is very easy to work only half the year, do climbing stuff the other half. Which is my plan.

Sales pitch over...

I like the AAI for their mountaineering and technical leadership courses for knowledge and experience. It looks like it will get you started. Then you can work your way through the AMGA coursework. And it's in Washington...exciting!

As a college professor, I can tell you that college is great - if it fits your career goals. Generally to get ahead in life, you will need more than a high school education, but not all jobs require a 4 year degree. Trade school of some kind is definitely a valid option.

I worked in the nuclear industry for a while. I was an engineer and the guys who worked the plant shutdowns, made way more money in a few months than I made in an entire year. Granted, they were working 60+ hour weeks, but it was only for a few months.

There are plenty of options out there. Don't get locked into any particular one. Find the one that works for you.

Scott McMahon wrote: Or because they have trust funds to fall back on. :o) Don't let the dirty mountain khakis fool you.

Most definitely. . .

Marc801 wrote: I was surprised that OSHA regulations allow unprotected climbing: youtube.com/watch?v=LF5Ogmr…

holy shit... that's nutz. Big balls.

Paul Hutton wrote: I hate participating in the social circles with people that are accomplished in college. They talk about the housing market, corporate jobs, wife and kids. And they don't seem very colorful, their personalities. Pretty dull.

As a guide, you are most likely to be stuck for hours if not days with those "dull" people. Having had different life experiences (not necessarily college) really helps to distinguish you from being a mere hand holder and a porter to a guide. Some guide services recognize that and their pay scale reflects that.

doligo wrote: As a guide, you are most likely to be stuck for hours if not days with those "dull" people. Having had different life experiences (not necessarily college) really helps to distinguish you from being a mere hand holder and a porter to a guide. Some guide services recognize that and their pay scale reflects that.

I hope to corrupt them!

Paul Hutton wrote: I'm really inspired by people that embrace the elements without having a fortune...I hate participating in the social circles with people that are accomplished in college. They talk about the housing market, corporate jobs, wife and kids. And they don't seem very colorful, their personalities. Pretty dull. Trying to live comfortably is overrated...

If it is true that some people are not colorful, it is also true that others are color-blind. The love of adventure, of "embracing the elements," is not correlated with income or education level. As Dolgio said, you are speaking (with a combination of ignorance and prejudice that a little college might help to alleviate) about the majority of your potential clientele. And don't think for a moment that your disdain for their lack of colorfulness, their choice of education and career path, and their possible financial success will not come through to poison your relationship with them.

I see the relatively small amount of guiding I did and the guiding I see guides doing all the time as part of the "teaching enterprise," which includes everything from specific trades to esoteric academics. Beyond domain-specific knowledge, the teacher has to not simply accept, but actually celebrate their students for who they are, and, I should add, be grateful for the opportunity to share the teacher's hard-earned knowledge.

So you have to begin by liking people and enjoying the contribution you can make to helping them progress and achieve goals. If you conceptualize this as "corrupting" them to give up their careers, mortgages, wives, and children, you will spend your very short guiding career wondering why no one ever comes back for a second day.

There is also Mountain Training School. Mountainguideschool.com they have been accepting gi bill for about 2 years now and have a large percentage of veteran students. I've been with them for over a year now and have about a year left of schooling with them. Even took an AMGA RGC between courses...

As is usually the case, I think rgold hits the nail on the head.

This "guide as trust-funder" thing is mostly untrue. Three of the best guides in the US didn't do a day of college in their lives. Do most guides in the US have a college degree? Yeah, seems so. Some trust-funders? Sure. All of 'em? What a joke. Selling stereotypes like this is usually a shortcut and a symptom of something...

And the "do it for the lifestyle" argument is one of the reasons wages stay ridiculously low in this country (that and the lack of requirement for certification). But it's possible to create a work situation far better and save some money. Being a mountain guide--a certified mountain guide--is a profession. Go into as such. If you're not doing it as a profession, better off doing something else and keeping the climbing/skiing as your hobby/passion/avocation.

Anyway, best of luck. If you're serious about it, do it. And get certified. The market's changing here...and certification is becoming a better and better gig. For lots of reasons. Get an international license (via obtaining all three certs from the AMGA--no other way, and certainly NOT that mountain school outfit) and you can open a lot of doors for yourself, if you're into traveling, etc.

Good luck man. RC

rgold wrote: If it is true that some people are not colorful, it is also true that others are color-blind. The love of adventure, of "embracing the elements," is not correlated with income or education level. As Dolgio said, you are speaking (with a combination of ignorance and prejudice that a little college might help to alleviate) about the majority of your potential clientele. And don't think for a moment that your disdain for their lack of colorfulness, their choice of education and career path, and their possible financial success will not come through to poison your relationship with them. I see the relatively small amount of guiding I did and the guiding I see guides doing all the time as part of the "teaching enterprise," which includes everything from specific trades to esoteric academics. Beyond domain-specific knowledge, the teacher has to not simply accept, but actually celebrate their students for who they are, and, I should add, be grateful for the opportunity to share the teacher's hard-earned knowledge. So you have to begin by liking people and enjoying the contribution you can make to helping them progress and achieve goals. If you conceptualize this as "corrupting" them to give up their careers, mortgages, wives, and children, you will spend your very short guiding career wondering why no one ever comes back for a second day.

Dang dude. I was kidding. Why so serious? We see the world and have preferences on different levels. You do you, I'll do me. Nerd ha!

Was that you that I saw in Spain?