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cdec
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Feb 28, 2016
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SLC, UT
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 654
We forgot about the seasonal closure for wintering animals that is in effect during the winter months ending 4/1. Lots of these pretty, new, bright yellow CLOSED signs along the road. Didn't get to climb. Did get to witness incredible acts of selfishness and stupidity. There were no less than 4 parties on the Dry Wall and Roadside crag. These two took the cake! Please respect closures and your fellow climbers. We lose access because of this kind of behavior. Go!
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Allen Sanderson
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Feb 28, 2016
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On the road to perdition
· Joined Jul 2007
· Points: 1,203
Carl, did you help them read the sign???
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grog m
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Feb 28, 2016
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Saltlakecity
· Joined Aug 2012
· Points: 70
Go? Why didn't you say something then and there? It's not your job to enforce, but as a climbing steward it is your job to educate. Start a conversation: Hey, my name is cdec what is your name? The expectation here is that you don't climb from dates A to B because of the wildlife. Fragile egosystem blah blah Why weren't you meeting this expectation? (gives them the chance to talk) Their fragile climbing egos will be hurt and I wouldn't expect them to leave. HOWEVER, I would bet 9/10 people wouldn't return at a later time "because of that one guy who called us out for the wildlife closures"
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grog m
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Feb 28, 2016
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Saltlakecity
· Joined Aug 2012
· Points: 70
Addendum: It takes balls and is a scary thing to do for sure. But you gotta keep your cool and if they get mad or confrontational just leave.
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cdec
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Feb 28, 2016
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SLC, UT
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 654
Actually this brings up a very interesting point. I am long time climber, guide service owner, AMGA and SLCA member and a veteran instructor of last seasons Rock Project. I am fully aware of The Pact and being an "up Stander" not a "bystander". This morning I was feeling exceptionally non-confrontational. There was no scenario that I could work out where me pointing out these signs would have went well. Perhaps I'm wrong but being the climbing police, in any capacity, wasn't for me this morning. In the past I have limited my intervention only to situations that where grossly unsafe. Admittedly I have a tough time with etiquette issues like music, group size and sieging routes. I climb, in part, to get away from conversation and debate not invite it. I guess though that to protect that which I love I need to expand my comfort zone.
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FrankPS
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Feb 28, 2016
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Atascadero, CA
· Joined Nov 2009
· Points: 276
Who is the land manager? I know that getting them involved could cause total, permanent closures, so I guess I'm just curious.
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cdec
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Feb 28, 2016
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SLC, UT
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 654
State land. Division of Natural resources is probably responsible for managing the wildlife and the closure.
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M Mobley
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Feb 28, 2016
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Bar Harbor, ME
· Joined Mar 2006
· Points: 911
Better pictures help the community get the shame train going, doubtful these turds will own up to it.
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J Q
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Feb 28, 2016
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Mar 2012
· Points: 50
Perhaps the two are exclusive? I just wrote a real good rant, then erased it, cause fuck it, you all have kids, and it's only funny if you don't.
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Nathan Self
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Feb 28, 2016
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Louisiana
· Joined Mar 2012
· Points: 90
That's pretty crappy, but I'd love to see videos of you informing them. Watch your back!
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grog m
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Feb 29, 2016
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Saltlakecity
· Joined Aug 2012
· Points: 70
The "Go" part just bothers me. Perhaps I don't understand what you meant there. If YOU aren't going to do something about it why expect that anybody else would? You're the super qualified person....
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FrankPS
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Feb 29, 2016
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Atascadero, CA
· Joined Nov 2009
· Points: 276
grog m wrote:The "Go" part just bothers me. Perhaps I don't understand what you meant there. If YOU aren't going to do something about it why expect that anybody else would? You're the super qualified person.... I think "go" means "start the conversation," not "go there and take care of this for me." My interpretation, anyway.
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cdec
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Feb 29, 2016
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SLC, UT
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 654
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Josh Janes
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Feb 29, 2016
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2001
· Points: 9,999
Climbers tattling on other climbers on the internet when they could have said something right then and there? Lame and lacking integrity.
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M Mobley
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Feb 29, 2016
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Bar Harbor, ME
· Joined Mar 2006
· Points: 911
Josh Janes wrote:Climbers tattling on other climbers on the internet when they could have said something right then and there? Lame and lacking integrity. I wouldnt go that far but... if I had decided to drive away and not climb for the day I would have either said something and/or taken better pics of the vehicle and people. Thats just me, especially at a complete choss pile like Echo that really nobody would miss if it fell down tomorrow.
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Josh Janes
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Feb 29, 2016
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2001
· Points: 9,999
Yeah, I'm not saying cdec is a bad guy. But he did ask for feedback. So if you don't really think the violation is that big of a deal, I have no problems with that - I suspect there are a lot of closures out there that are pretty unnecessary. But if you're actually concerned that raptors will be harmed or that climbing will get shut down, you should say something rather than just letting the activity continue. On the other hand, if you don't want to have a confrontation, that's your prerogative... I just think posting about it online after the fact is pretty lame.
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M Mobley
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Feb 29, 2016
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Bar Harbor, ME
· Joined Mar 2006
· Points: 911
Josh Janes wrote:If you don't really think the violation is that big of a deal, I have no problems with that. I suspect there are a lot of closures out there that are pretty unnecessary. But if you're actually concerned that raptors will be harmed or that climbing will get shut down, you should say something rather than just letting the activity continue. On the other hand, if you don't want to have a confrontation, that's your prerogative... I just think posting about it online after the fact is pretty lame. Jesus fucking christ I did not say that, chill a bit dude. Calling him lame and lacking integrity was a bit over the top and approaching jerk status. Do you spend your days calling everyone at the crag out on what they are doing wrong? I know I dont.
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Jim Garrett
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Feb 29, 2016
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2007
· Points: 0
I suppose someone should tell the ice climbers that they are violating the winter wildlife closure. I was planning on taking my portable hot tub up to the Choss Cave this weekend, but I guess that will get me in trouble.
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Kevin Chuba
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Feb 29, 2016
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Salt Lake City, UT
· Joined Mar 2012
· Points: 135
I just want to know where are their helmets? Obviously not thinking clearly. Good thread...We can all learn from other climbers mistakes. These two individuals are being jerks and should respect the posted signage!
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cdec
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Feb 29, 2016
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SLC, UT
· Joined Jan 2007
· Points: 654
Why is it "lame" or "tattling"? I didn't feel like confronting people that obviously didn't give a shit. Instead I very deliberately posted it on the web where everyone, even the offenders, can see it. Though only they know who they are. By doing so two important things are accomplished on a broader scale than by simply approaching these two. Closures are being discussed. What to do when you see something like this happen is being discussed. The quality of the climbing or the validity of the closure isn't the issue here. Personally I don't think this area which is adjacent to I-80 and one of the countries busiest rail lines has seen any "wintering wildlife" in quite some time. But the DNR saw fit to take measures to protect Elk and Deer. Additionally, some think the climbing is worth it. So much so they violated the closure. The issue is RESPECTING CLOSURES, no matter what.
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Collin Holt
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Feb 29, 2016
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Dallas, TX
· Joined Mar 2008
· Points: 40
Josh Janes wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying cdec is a bad guy. But he did ask for feedback. So if you don't really think the violation is that big of a deal, I have no problems with that - I suspect there are a lot of closures out there that are pretty unnecessary. But if you're actually concerned that raptors will be harmed or that climbing will get shut down, you should say something rather than just letting the activity continue. On the other hand, if you don't want to have a confrontation, that's your prerogative... I just think posting about it online after the fact is pretty lame. Josh, you are way out of line.
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