Ice climbing with dodgy knee

Hello, looking for some advice please.

Has anyone got dodgy knees who does ice climbing?

I have been rock climbing many years but never done ice.
Looking for something special to do for 60th birthday next year (beginning of March) and ice climbing at Ouray has been suggested.

Would only be doing easy topropes, but just wondering how feasible it is.
I have a damaged knee which limits what I can do and can tend to be unstable.
(I'm also not particularly fit or strong. On rock I'm toproping easier 10s on slabby rock, but not v good on steep stuff.)

So, I'd be grateful for any opinions on whether I'd be likely to be able to do it or not! I do quite fancy the idea of easy sport ice climbing, punctuated by soaking in hot springs.

Kate, posting on Alan"s account - really must get my own, else people will think he's lazy with knackered knees, whereas he's actually super-fit and psyched!

Went ice climbing in Ouray for the first time earlier this winter, and in my experience it'll be doable, but may be uncomfortable. The footwear will be heavier than you're used to from rock climbing, you'll be kicking your frontpoints in a lot (which can be hard on the knees) and you'll want to have fairly strong calves. I would say that if you can trail run confidently without fearing for your knees then you should be good to go, but I would also tell you to ignore everything I say and wait for someone who has more experience to come along and tell you what to do :)

Gavin W wrote:...if you can trail run confidently without fearing for your knees then you should be good to go...

Kate,

I have moderately dodgy knees.

The act of kicking in frontpoints shouldn't kill your knees too much, I don't think. (Admittedly not knowing the extent of your injury.) It's a short kick at what I would think is the safest end of the range of motion and there really shouldn't be much lateral stabilization required.

Do you do much hiking in crampons? In my experience, you're much more likely to experience knee pain from stability issues when bottom-foot cramponing on approaches or, especially, high impact on a downhill on the way out. Using microspikes on easy approaches, caning with your axe/tools and using trekking poles can help save your knees.

I should say that it's very common for beginners (or tired climbers) to accidentally bash their knees into the ice when ice climbing. If this would result in you needing to be carted out, you should plan for this contingency. :-P

Kate,

Some suggestions that work for my crappy knees for ice or rock...

1) Hydrate- before, during and after
2) Take it easy on the approach, even short approaches
3) Trekking poles- take some weight off those knees
4) 200 mg ibuprofen beforehand helps keep inflammation from getting started

Specifically for ice, basic good technique minimizes stress on the knee.
Limit high-stepping, use natural steps in the ice, use an assertive stepping motion instead of kicking where possible, try to use only as much force and/or number of kicks necessary, etc. Its not like you are kicking field goals!

Go for it and have fun!

I find ice climbing easier on my knees than rock climbing. On rock, I often have to twist at the knee (drop knees etc...). On ice, my knees rarely twist. I also find approaches on snow easier on the knees than when rock-hopping.

I would say go for it. A guide for proper instruction would be a good idea for proper technique and can also tell you how to move that limits odd knee forces.
The actual climbing is not particularly hard on the knees. I cannot trail run it hurts my knees way too much, but I can ice climb all day and have zero issues. The kicking in to the ice if done correctly is actually reasonably delicate. Like said above you are not kicking field goals. Just check the crampons over before you climb, make sure that the front point are god and sharp and thus will go in to the ice much easier. One of my climbing partners is a gentleman of 70 years young and he still ice climbs after knee surgery.

Thanks all for the advice - sounds like I should give it a go...

Kate (oh yes, I do have an account, I forgot)

Go for it! I have been ice climbing for years, most with dodgy knees, although this season was out due to another knee scope. With some leg/calf strengthening before you go, your knees should be fine during the climb, maybe a little stiff or sore the next day, but it should be fine. I am planning on going back to Ouray next winter. If you are looking for partners, and the timing is right, et me know.

Mike Gillam wrote: Go for it! I have been ice climbing for years, most with dodgy knees, although this season was out due to another knee scope. With some leg/calf strengthening before you go, your knees should be fine during the climb, maybe a little stiff or sore the next day, but it should be fine. I am planning on going back to Ouray next winter. If you are looking for partners, and the timing is right, et me know.

I hope it went great for Kate! 

This will be me, except I'll be 61, and have arthritic knees.

My question, as I might be in single digit temps, is this: does a knee "sleeve" or whatever help? I'm not talking about reinforcement, just extra warmth if a knee is complaining in January.

Thanks! Helen

I tore my ACL, never had it mended, and ski and climb wth a brace ok.  Sometimes I have to remind myself which knee is incomplete. You may have different ailements but a good brace can provide confidence and support.

Scoop wrote:

I tore my ACL, never had it mended, and ski and climb wth a brace ok.  Sometimes I have to remind myself which knee is incomplete. You may have different ailements but a good brace can provide confidence and support.

Scoop, oddly, with arthritis, my knees get weaker if they are "favored". The PT a year ago worked toward strengthening all the supporting stuff (entire leg, including glutes), and fixed a long term gait problem I didn't know I had. 

By far the best therapy is using the suckers, which means staying active, or risk losing my mobility.

Now, if I could just get the "health" insurance to pay for the climbing gym..... :-/

Best, Helen

csproul wrote: I find ice climbing easier on my knees than rock climbing. On rock, I often have to twist at the knee (drop knees etc...). On ice, my knees rarely twist. I also find approaches on snow easier on the knees than when rock-hopping.

Not too many drop knees in technical ice climbing.  I think vertical ice climbing would be a friendly range of motion for your knees.  Doing french technique is a whole other story - so probably avoid low angle stuff or anything with a low angle approach.  Also try to avoid anything with talus slopes - maneuvering in talus with crampons sucks and will twist your legs and ankles in all weird directions. At Ouray  (at least in the park) you dont have to worry about either, so you should be fine.  You might have issues with getting down to the bottom via some of the gullies, but they are short and you can always rappel instead.

oh and the other thing about Ouray is if it does bother your knees, you are never far from town...

I climbed all last year up to grade 5 and m8+, including 3+ hour bushwacks to access the climbs without an ACL, and I intend to do it again this year. Build them muscles up and you can do it.

I have ice climbed with a badly torn meniscus in one knee and no acl in the other. No issues. I finally had both knees repaired last year, was back in Ouray about 5 months after getting a new acl. Had no issues, I did used a brace for my first day of climbing after my surgery, wasnt trusting my new acl yet, ended up ditching the brace and climbed with no issues.

Regarding the cold temperatures and knee issues,I have arthritis and live in North Dakota; whenever the temps drop I do feel a bit of pain in that one knee but its not bad enough to keep me from doing anything. I dont own a car and walk everywhere, even during the winter. I also spent a few weeks in denali this past summer only wearing a pair of soft shell pants and goretex pants on some ocations, the cold gave me no issues at all.