Route name: Negro Girls

r m wrote:Does anyone know of someone who is actually troubled by the name, or are we all being offended on behalf of some hypothetical person?

I can not speak to the name of that particular route.

Even so, in fifteen year's of climbing partners, once in a while I hear someone abbreviate a route name they would rather not speak such as "LA" for "Liberace's A***". I never asked why but my impression was the person did not want to offend others who were within hearing distance by repeating the name out loud (i.e., the person wanted to be 'polite' in someone else's company).

One can effectively enforce that your children not use potentially offensive language but not really truly for very long - 13 or 14 years of age if that? And in a formal setting with understood norms / laws (e.g., a court room), those on the side of norms / laws can usually enforce this as well.

But for "offensive" route names, they are more obscure than a book in a library - or a wiki page - which actually describe the meaning of said offensive words in great detail ... and I am glad those are largely tolerated in the culture within which I live as much else that I actually value in this vein is also largely tolerated.

Quoting for emphasis ...

r m wrote:If you want to do something meaningful about racism forget about harmless route names and make sure your local police department is acting in a fair and reasonable manner.

r m wrote:Does anyone know of someone who is actually troubled by the name, or are we all being offended on behalf of some hypothetical person? .

Unless you are black, one probably has no business saying what words are racially offensive really...

Michael Schneider wrote: The fact that route names may offend you is your problem. From Sexual innuendo to out right misogynistic banners Such as Swinging Cun...vagina, insulting or politically incorrect names are, historically, staples & Are funny to some. Those who like things like Hyperbole and sarcastic, or dark humor, take delight in The double entendres, hidden meanings or sound of words / word play, when naming climbs. There is no accounting for taste, maturity, intelligence,upbringing or cultural backwardness.

Limp Wristed Faggots and Negro Girls are neither clever nor literary titles. I grew up in the punk scene of one of the most obnoxiously PC cities in the world. We tried everything we possibly could to piss off the panty wadders and uptight feel gooders, so I get the humor of off color jokes, names, etc. What I dont understand is a bunch of priveleged white men (of which I too am one) telling the rest of the world not to be upset about racist, homophobic, mysoginistic vomit, 'cause, you know..it was just a joke.

simplyput wrote:, What I dont understand is a bunch of priveleged white men (of which I too am one) telling the rest of the world not to be upset about racist, homophobic, mysoginistic vomit, 'cause, you know..it was just a joke.

Yeah, I have heard many people over the years say things that are very mean and offensive & then just blow off responsibility by saying "hey, lighten up. It was just a joke."

I don't care for the PC attitude of "policing" what everyone else says (and thinks) but , if you choose to insult someone for the color of their skin or sexual orientation or whatever, at least stand up & admit you are putting them down and accept the consequences rather than putting it on the "overly sensitive" recipient on the slur.
This is America and you have the right to be an asshole if you so choose but don't act like "it was just a joke" and therefore anyone who is hurt by your remarks is at fault.

I'll get off my soapbox now & get back to talking about climbing and then watch the Superbowl

simplyput wrote: Limp Wristed Faggots and Negro Girls are neither clever nor literary titles. I grew up in the punk scene of one of the most obnoxiously PC cities in the world. We tried everything we possibly could to piss off the panty wadders and uptight feel gooders, so I get the humor of off color jokes, names, etc. What I dont understand is a bunch of priveleged white men (of which I too am one) telling the rest of the world not to be upset about racist, homophobic, mysoginistic vomit, 'cause, you know..it was just a joke.

Amen.
"There comin' to take er route names". Let's panic and buy up all the vitriol route names
we can git er hands on." Let's lie about the obvious, literal meaning of stupidly named routes. Let's
make a lobby called the NRA to support National Routin' Asshats.
(I am a gun owner and from a southern state and have an accent, although I hide it.)

We are talking about two route names at this point, both by one guy, presumably. And simply asking what's the story behind the names and hey, here is a chance to maybe update the meanings to be actually "clever" or "funny" and not be overtly offensive to CHILDREN ("'girls") and diversity (everyone). We're all human here and not saying anyone is inherently a bad person.
JT is where I climb. I like a lot of interesting route names that push thought or have a not so obvious meaning...better said by Michael Schneider:
"...hidden meanings or sound of words / word play, when naming climbs. There is no accounting for taste, maturity, intelligence,upbringing or cultural backwardness."

Fat Dad, being a plus sized father I would appreciate you changing your screen name, maybe Ample Dad, or Plus Size Dad or anything that won't make me cry myself to sleep at night.

Abner wrote: "Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side And the colored girls go," "Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side And the negro girls go," I would hardly say that is unrecognizable. It does make me happy that there is a gallant knight defending us minorities from the transgression that is the name of a rock climb.

Your quoted lyric for reference is 15 words. The fa used ONE of those words.

Maybe the other word was the other N word at one point and this is the PC version.
I guess we should be greatful.

owen david wrote: Your quoted lyric for reference is 15 words. The fa used ONE of those words. Maybe the other word was the other N word at one point and this is the PC version. I guess we should be greatful.

FYI- the phrase "Negro Girls" is never used in "Walk on the Wild Side", just "colored girls" Which may be more offensive (but I digress).

play.google.com/music/previ…

"FYI- the phrase "Negro Girls" is never used in "Walk on the Wild Side", just "colored girls" Which may be more offensive (but I digress). "

Pretty funny to hear that we are wiling to let go of something that might be even more offensive.

Abner wrote: "Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side And the colored girls go," "Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side And the negro girls go," I would hardly say that is unrecognizable.

I would go as far as saying it is a direct link and a clever name for the climb.

Honestly I don't see how it is offensive. Coloured/Negro/Black/African American have all had their time and place in US culture as the polite way of referring to the decedents from imported African slaves. These terms don't have offensive overtones. Another N words does though.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current name. Certainly nothing more wrong that say a climb called White Girls.

PC behaviour is creating division not removing it. If language offends the best way isn't to be PC remove it, the best way is to OWN it. Whether it is faggot/redneck/geek/jock etc....

patto wrote: I would go as far as saying it is a direct link and a clever name for the climb. Honestly I don't see how it is offensive. Coloured/Negro/Black/African American have all had their time and place in US culture as the polite way of referring to the decedents from imported African slaves. These terms don't have offensive overtones. Another N words does though. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current name. Certainly nothing more wrong that say a climb called White Girls. PC behaviour is creating division not removing it. If language offends the best way isn't to be PC remove it, the best way is to OWN it. Whether it is faggot/redneck/geek/jock etc....

It's hard to reason with someone who thinks "jock" and "faggot" are comparable. It's also troll-ish to have an empty profile.

owen david wrote:It's hard to reason with someone who thinks "jock" and "faggot" are comparable.

I didn't say they were comparable. There is a variety of words used to describe groups or stereotypes that depending on context are offensive or not. Context is everything, even with the N word.

owen david wrote:It's also troll-ish to have an empty profile.

Seriously? I let my words speak for me. Not a sculptured profile.

Currently your words are busy making a fuss about nothing. Not many people here seem to be agreeing with you and this is hardly a crowd riddled with bigots.

patto wrote: I didn't say they were comparable. There is a variety of words used to describe groups or stereotypes that depending on context are offensive or not. Context is everything, even with the N word. Seriously? I let my words speak for me. Not a sculptured profile. Currently your words are busy making a fuss about nothing. Not many people here seem to be agreeing with you and this is hardly a crowd riddled with bigots.

Yes, I understand the nuance of context. If your 12 year old son or daughter told a joke at the dinner table while you had company and used the F word and explained that it was a matter of context to say that word then you would be ok with it?

owen david wrote: Yes, I understand the nuance of context. If your 12 year old son or daughter told a joke at the dinner table while you had company and used the F word and explained that it was a matter of context to say that word then you would be ok with it?

Depends on the context and the company. But most likely no. But that is hardly at all relevant. I would not approve of my children being crass, so use of such a word at the dinner table would be frowned upon. Likewise bigotry and racism is also unacceptable, but I don't consider the word Negro to be an insulting racial term. (Though it is a bit out-dated.)

Who gets offended by the word "Negro"? No doubt some people may. But others also prefer it. It really depends on context, generational gap etc...
aaregistry.org/historic_eve…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

patto wrote: Depends on the context and the company. But most likely no. But that is hardly at all relevant. I would not approve of my children being crass, so use of such a word at the dinner table would be frowned upon. Likewise bigotry and racism is also unacceptable, but I don't consider the word Negro to be an insulting racial term. (Though it is a bit out-dated.) Who gets offended by the word "Negro"? No doubt some people may. But others also prefer it. It really depends on context, generational gap etc... aaregistry.org/historic_eve… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

To be fair I don't know your age, race, cultural background, sexual orientation or religion so that does play a contextual role in weather you would be offended by...many things. I am glad to see you agree that some words, regardless of context are unacceptable.

owen david wrote:I am glad to see you agree that some words, regardless of context are unacceptable.

No. I did not agree on that. In fact I explicitly emphasised how context matters. Yet you seem to not have understood this.

Negro means black, in Spanish and Portugese. Another N-word that is so sensitive to be used in general use in the US, is regularly used in friendly circumstances in other contexts. Context can never be disregarded in language.

patto wrote: Likewise bigotry and racism is also unacceptable... aaregistry.org/historic_eve… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

I like your philosophies, patto. Do you climb? Where?

patto wrote: ...I explicitly emphasised how context matters. ...Context can never be disregarded in language.

So you're saying that people could think the route names are bigoted and racist, because they are out of context. Yes, that's a good point.

owen david wrote: So you're saying that people could think the route names are bigoted and racist, because they are out of context. Yes, that's a good point.

Yes. Some people could think that. People are free to think whatever they wish. They might get it completely wrong though about the intended meaning.

Which gets to the guts of the issue. Be tolerant. Don't get offended unless offense is genuinely intended. (And even if it is I recommend choosing not to get offended.)

You seem to be choosing to take offense where none is intended or implied.

I could recant a story about yesterday evening where I doused a large faggot and a black boy in petrol and set them alight. Or I could recant a story about yesterday evening where I doused a large bundle of stick and a Xanthorrhoea in petrol and had a warm campfire. Language is complicated. Don't be offended when none is intended.