Route name: Negro Girls

I think it's about time we go through ALL old guidebooks and look for anything that could be offensive and begin the healing. I mean Black Tide in JT, what the heck, what is that supposed to mean??

Or Overhang Bi-pass. Bi what?? Sexy Grandma, my gawd, I happen to know a few grandmas and I don't think they would be cool with that at all. I'm glad this post exists and this stuff is being brought into the light.

In the Sandia Mountains NM, there is a route called The Second Coming. Religious? Sexual? I had assumed it was a religious reference. And even though religion can sometimes be a "hot topic" for me, I've climbed it many times without any spiritual suffering. :-)

Eventually, the FAist Joe Darriau explained the name in a comment on the page - which overtly had nothing to do with religion or sex. See Joe's comment about 5th from the bottom.

I'm pretty liberal these days. So I'll suggest, if it is on MP.com then just add the story behind the name and leave it at that. No matter how non-PC it is these days. Does a body good to laugh at ourselves now and then.

Hope the OP gets a solid answer.

Roy is about as solid of a man as you'll ever meet.
I don't know the origin of the route name, but I can assure it wasn't racist in concept.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:I think it's about time we go through ALL old guidebooks and look for anything that could be offensive and begin the healing.

Wouldn't be the first time...
theguardian.com/artanddesig…

Kevin Mokracek wrote:Or Overhang Bi-pass. Bi what?? Sexy Grandma, my gawd, I happen to know a few grandmas and I don't think they would be cool with that at all. I'm glad this post exists and this stuff is being brought into the light.

Kevin,
I don't think your reference is valid on Overhang Bi-pass. It would appear that "Overhang" refers to the overhanging nature of the route (not an overhanging dong that you presumptuously hoped for) and "Bi-pass" alludes to the roadway intersection below. I don't think it's a reference to being bisexual and it doesn't seem derogatory even to my PC Bro ears. However, you need not look for cryptic or obscure clues to a route names defamatory intent when "Limp Wristed Faggot" exists. Go figure, it's another Roy McClenahan FA. Someone call SAR, Kevin just decked on Pathetic [crack]. It's in the Jumbo Rocks near "All Redheads Smell".

mountainproject.com/v/limp-…

Russ Walling wrote:That McClenahan is a curse!!!! Limp Wristed Faggot too???? Unreal. At least it wasn't Limp Wristed Negro Faggot. Now that shit would'a been outta line!!! Almost as bad as those Sperm Burpers from Fresno routes in the Valley. With Roy being both black (either quadroon or octaroon, as I've been told) and bi (at a minimum) does that it make it ok?? We're surrounded!!

I think "Limp Wristed Faggot" is plenty outrageous. No need to do backflips to create a distraction from the issue. Your hyperbole does make for great spectacle of your pure lunacy and denial. But really, we digress from "Negro Girls" and an earnest question:

(space for dramatic effect)

Does the FA climber have the option to change the name of their climb?

Taylor Owen Brooks: "Does the FA climber have the option to change the name of their climb?"

Oy vey.

Why worry about what the FAist thinks? To scrub out all offensive route names - it can be done by simply writing your own guide. Surely there are many more route names that offend than this one.

"Pro Life"? "Pro Choice"? They could instead be "Pro 1" or "Pro 2" depending on your inclination.

Abner wrote: This.

If "This" then it's unrecognizable.

Thanks for your input, PRRose. Again, the route name is not the lyric,
an unfortunate interpretation and tone if that's the intention. So why not
clarify the issue and update the name to serve the ultimate gesture of a
tribute that people will actually understand and enjoy.

s.price,
Giggin a f*g is established slang in EU and if 'merican's understand the reference
then they probably wouldn't be offended by it. In the U.S. people say cigarettes usually,
I dunno...I've heard "lung dart".

Fat Dad and Old lady H opinions are interesting too
with good points from Cragmantoo and City Dweller,
and insight from Bill Lawry among others. Thank you
for softening those cynicisms of mine. Trying to keep
an opened mind believe or not.

Greg D that's a valuable lesson as a CHILD. I'm guessing you have no filter when you speak
like turrets?

Adam Burch, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

Frank Minunni, what is a backslider? Those are some crazy names and who
can argue with that! Although, the FA'ist reference is very handy to be "in" on.
Wild times...thx!

lapola, in some twisted way that could explain things in a good way. As someone else
said and this is true, that word lost favor in the early 60's. Lou Reed in the '70's was
being ironic as he grew up loving black culture and most subversive counter cultures. The context
of the FA name in '88 is anyone's guess and it is what it is. Would much rather see a
direct reference to Reed and not a direct reference to negativity. Clarity from the FA
himself and his inspiration is highly anticipated.

ubu, thanks for the link!!!!!!

Rogerlarock, you could be absolutely accurate. Millions of people will only see the
names he made up on MP and that will be their take away. They may only see two
infamous route names that show up as they google something unrelated to climbing.
Will they think all climbers are offensive, bigots?

Thanks all

Wow, lots of weak arguments in support of the contention that there are offensive names everywhere. Let's see, it's Overhang Bypass, not Bi-pass (and the person who posted that is a local and so I'm pretty certain knew that but chose to misrepresents the route's true name). Black Tide is named for a big black swath on the rock, but is also used to refer to oil spills.

I think that a good explanation for some of the more colorful names (no pun intended) is that climbers like to see themselves as anti establishment and sometimes make immature choices when expressing their individuality. Most of the time those are made without the intent to hurt anyone's feelings, but little thought is given to whether they might offend someone from outside our little tribe. Nevertheless, you have to be stupid or ignorant to believe that a gay person would not be offended by "Limp Wristed Faggot". Do you have a right to choose that route name? Absolutely, but others have a right to make a judgment about who you are as a result of your choices.

Fat Dad wrote:Wow, lots of weak arguments in support of the contention that there are offensive names everywhere. Let's see, it's Overhang Bypass, not Bi-pass (and the person who posted that is a local and so I'm pretty certain knew that but chose to misrepresents the route's true name). Black Tide is named for a big black swath on the rock, but is also used to refer to oil spills. I think that a good explanation for some of the more colorful names (no pun intended) is that climbers like to see themselves as anti establishment and sometimes make immature choices when expressing their individuality. Most of the time those are made without the intent to hurt anyone's feelings, but little thought is given to whether they might offend someone from outside our little tribe. Nevertheless, you have to be stupid or ignorant to believe that a gay person would not be offended by "Limp Wristed Faggot". Do you have a right to choose that route name? Absolutely, but others have a right to make a judgment about who you are as a result of your choices.

Well spoken and better than any of my attempts at this.
"Do you have the right to choose that route name" -interesting on many levels.

Thanks for watching and that's a wrap for me.
Shame the FA is too afraid to touch this...pretty much says it all.
Everyone who joined this...much respect.

it's funny to see how offended some people can get over a routes name
and
it's also funny that you, owen, are being mister 'PC' when it comes to this routes name but yet you make a shitty turrets joke about Greg D ...

you know someone with turrets would be offended by that hahah!

fruitloop wrote:it's funny to see how offended some people can get over a routes name and it's also funny that you, owen, are being mister 'PC' when it comes to this routes name but yet you make a shitty turrets joke about Greg D ... you know someone with turrets would be offended by that hahah!

You're right, that was in bad taste. Apologies.
I didn't say he had turrets. I asked if he spoke as if he didn't care about other people's feelings which he implied he did. Kind of like naming a route without caring if it hurts other peoples feelings. Sorry you were so offended. This is just like South Park.

fruitloop wrote:it's funny to see how offended some people can get over a routes name and it's also funny that you, owen, are being mister 'PC' when it comes to this routes name but yet you make a shitty turrets joke about Greg D ... you know someone with turrets would be offended by that hahah!

So you're ok with a route called Negro Girls, but Turrets Girls is wayyyyy out of line.
All joking aside, where did you find that amazeballz "jerry got ya" climbing art. That is the coolest climbing art i've seen.

Owen,
Are you kidding with this? It seems your being purposely obtuse.
There are loads of offensive route names. The thoughts and sentiments of the FA party
are none of your business. If you don't like the words don't use them
Limp Wristed Fs? Change it in your book & mind to L.W.F.
The fact that route names may offend you is your problem.

From Sexual innuendo to out right misogynistic banners Such as Swinging Cun...vagina, insulting or politically incorrect names are, historically, staples & Are funny to some.

Those who like things like Hyperbole and sarcastic, or dark humor, take delight in
The double entendres, hidden meanings or sound of words / word play, when naming climbs.

There is no accounting for taste, maturity, intelligence,upbringing or cultural backwardness.
Miss understanding sarcasm, was part of the cause that climbing in the southern area -
( the now closed to climbing box canyon in Alabama) had no chance of being acceptable to the land owner who also wanted No exposure to anyone trespassing on his property.

As far as the freedom to change the name?
call a a skunk a polecat, & that is an insult to hard working dancers.

Some one can / will always find something offensive in a name.

Lydia's Lay Back, sounds fine to most of us, we know what a 'layback' is -
but I assure you not to Lydia's devoutly religious mom & dad. Who had it explained to them - her brother named it.

If you want to address a climber who likes to offend with funny route names,
You should have this same conversation with Jim Beyer. One of his more recent
Additions has a hysterical Topo to go along with it's name;
Hamas Fights For Freedom A5+

(Not linking?) il fix that later.
look it up here on MP.

Michael Schneider wrote:Owen, Are you kidding with this? It seems your being purposely obtuse. There are loads of offensive route names. The thoughts and sentiments of the FA party are none of your business. If you don't like the words don't use them Limp Wristed Fs? Change it in your book & mind to L.W.F. The fact that route names may offend you is your problem. From Sexual innuendo to out right misogynistic banners Such as Swinging Cun...vagina, insulting or politically incorrect names are, historically, staples from early on, & Are funny to some. Those who like things like Hyperbole and sarcastic, or dark humor, take delight in The double entendres, hidden meanings or sound of words / word play, when naming climbs. There is no accounting for taste, maturity, intelligence,upbringing or cultural backwardness. Miss understanding sarcasm, was part of the cause that climbing in the southern area - ( the box box canyon in Alabama) had no chance of being acceptable to the land owner who also wanted No exposure to anyone trespassing on his property. As far as the freedom to change the name? call a a skunk a polecat, & that is an insult to hard working dancers. Some one can / will always find something offensive in a name. Lydia's Lay Back, sounds fine to most of us, we know what a 'layback' is - but I assure you not to Lydia's devoutly religious mom & dad. Who had it explained to them - her brother named it. If you want to address a climber who likes to offend with funny route names, You should have this same conversation with Jim Beyer. One of his more recent Additions has a hysterical Topo to go along with it's name; Hamas Fights For Freedom A5+ look it up here on MP.

It's late, but as I always say, "one more".
Michael, is there a difference between being "obtuse" and "purposely obtuse"?
Does one have a choice in the matter? Think about that while you're throwing back
lobster tails and/or just shutting up and climbing. Gotta grab the bull by the horns
in these here forums to get any respect and get yer questions answered truthfully
and sans the usual fodder set out to appease or distract. I don't need to know the history of
route naming hijynx nor do I want to address every faux pas. You sir, have thrown
your hat on the rack with your fancy "double entendres" words, but you are mistaken.
You have piled on top, but you don't know who we're tackling or for that matter if you
play for the Lingerie League or the NFL. How bloody dare you tell me my point of
protest is mute. You want me to cross out names in my guide book and make nice.
"The fact that route names may offend you is your problem".
Yeah, it is my problem and that's why I'm front and center addressing it with
some fine gentlemen who are generous enough to share their valued opinions.
Some I agree with some I do not, but there is dialogue which I am greatfull for. Yeah,
there are a few slaps in the face (I'd like to slap you in the face right about now),
but we get along just fine. Tellin me to off and run away after the fact was just your
intro to waxing the finer guilty pleasures of depraved climbing culture in such a giddy
manner like Flounder delivering the line, "This is going to be great"!!!!

Did I come across as disagreeable ?
That was not my intent.
While I do not find anything objectionable in that route name when compared to the others already mentioned, I think that your point is well taken and by addressing it we help self police.
The forums' rule "not be a jerk" should extend to the naming of routes and beyond.
Concepts, that are divisive, have no place as route names, but it has been a long standing
practice.

owen david wrote: It's late, but as I always say, "one more". Michael, is there a difference between being "obtuse" and "purposely obtuse"? Does one have a choice in the matter? Think about that while you're throwing back lobster tails and/or just shutting up and climbing. Gotta grab the bull by the horns in these here forums to get any respect and get yer questions answered truthfully and sans the usual fodder set out to appease or distract. I don't need to know the history of route naming hijynx nor do I want to address every faux pas. You sir, have thrown your hat on the rack with your fancy "double entendres" words, but you are mistaken. You have piled on top, but you don't know who we're tackling or for that matter if you play for the Lingerie League or the NFL. How bloody dare you tell me my point of protest is mute. You want me to cross out names in my guide book and make nice. "The fact that route names may offend you is your problem". Yeah, it is my problem and that's why I'm front and center addressing it with some fine gentlemen who are generous enough to share their valued opinions. Some I agree with some I do not, but there is dialogue which I am greatfull for. Yeah, there are a few slaps in the face (I'd like to slap you in the face right about now), but we get along just fine. Tellin me to off and run away after the fact was just your intro to waxing the finer guilty pleasures of depraved climbing culture in such a giddy manner like Flounder delivering the line, "This is going to be great"!!!!

Late or early, thank you for the response.
I'm glad that my poor spelling, lack of spellcheck, weak editing skills and over all clumsy style of writing did not get in the way of you getting( some of )the gist of what I meant.
I was in no way piling on and spent the last hour trying to responded coherently.
Then through the magic that is my slack of skill with this device, I tried to activate the auto correct and the post was lost.
Rather than try to recreate my post I'll just say that I t would be easier to address current inappropriate route names than try and censor history.
I was not trying to bait you.
There are others here who are much better at that.
I was trying to further the conversation,
I wanted to point out the 1943 route that may have started the more 'blue' than not, trend in route names, in this country, Madame Grunnenbaum's Wulst. The meaning of which, I understand is seemingly tame but the word Wulst was an uncouth, or rude German word for breasts.
Akin to knockers,
Edit , to not lose this post again

owen david wrote:Did you notice that it's "black chicks in heat" and not "negro chicks in heat"? Did you notice that everyone in this forum is using "black" or "african american" instead of "negro"? All of you who did reinforce the idea that it's an outdated, offensive term. Just sayin'.

At one stage black was outdated and negro was the preferred term.

wiki:
Negro superseded colored as the most polite word for African Americans at a time when black was considered more offensive.[3] This word was accepted as normal, including by people classified as Negroes, until the late 1960s, after the later African-American Civil Rights Movement. One well-known example is the identification by Martin Luther King, Jr. of his own race as "Negro" in his famous speech of 1963, "I Have a Dream".
During the civil rights movements era of the 1950s and 1960s, some black American leaders in the United States, notably Malcolm X, objected to the word Negro because they associated it with the long history of slavery, segregation, and discrimination that treated African Americans as second class citizens, or worse.[4] Malcolm X preferred Black to Negro, but also started using the term Afro-American after leaving the Nation of Islam.[5]
Since the late 1960s, various other terms have been more widespread in popular usage. These include black, Black African, Afro-American (in use from the late 1960s to 1990) and African American (used in the United States to refer to black Americans, people often referred to in the past as American Negroes).[6]
The term Negro is still used in some historical contexts, such as in the name of the United Negro College Fund[7][8] and the Negro league in sports.
The United States Census Bureau announced that Negro would be included on the 2010 United States Census, alongside Black and African-American, because some older black Americans still self-identify with the term.[9][10][11]
The word Negro fell out of favor by the early 1970s in the United States after the African-American Civil Rights Movement. However, many older African Americans initially found the term black more offensive than Negro. In current English language usage, Negro is generally considered to be acceptable in a historical context, such as Negro spirituals or baseball's Negro Leagues of the early and mid-20th century, or in the name of older organizations, as in the United Negro College Fund or the Journal of Negro Education. The U.S. Census now uses the grouping "Black, African-American, or Negro." Negro is used in efforts to include older African Americans who more closely associate with the term.[12] According to Oxford Dictionaries, use of the word "now seems out of date or even offensive in both British and US English".[13]
A specifically female form of the word, negress (sometimes capitalized), was occasionally used. However, like Jewess, it has all but completely fallen from use. The related word Negroid was used by 19th- and 20th-century racial anthropologists. The suffix -oid means "similar to". "Negroid" as a noun was used to designate a wider or more generalized category than Negro; as an adjective it qualified a noun as in, for example, "negroid features".

Does anyone know of someone who is actually troubled by the name, or are we all being offended on behalf of some hypothetical person?

If you want to do something meaningful about racism forget about harmless route names and make sure your local police department is acting in a fair and reasonable manner.

City Dweller wrote: For me it's worth being aware that the words I use have lots of power, especially when I occupy a position of power and privilege. I may believe that they can't hurt me, but it's sure presumptuous to assume that they can't hurt anybody else either.

City Dweller is spot on!