Multi pitch transition from lead to lead

So here is the scenario. Climber A climbs first pitch and sets anchor on 3 bolts on a sport climb. He ties in brings up the rope and drapes it on the line that's tide into the anchor point (as normal situation). Climber B climbs to Climber A obviously cleaning as they go. I understand the situation when climber B will keep going to lead pitch 2. However, what if climber A will lead pitch 2 as well? Climber A has the rope draped over the line and anchor in front of the bolts. How would you personally trade spots in a situation like this? Basically where A is B is going so A can lead number 2.

I've personally seen anchoring into 2 bolts next to climber A. Climber B would then Build a seperate anchor and then hauling line and draping it (as pain staking as it is) since your right next to each other.

Thoughts?

Have B clove into the anchor just like A. A should have coiled the loops over his tie in point from small to large (opposite of normal). The coiled rope can then be flipped over onto B's tie in, so that the smallest loops are now on top for ease of feeding. Once B puts A on belay, A can take himself off the anchor and begin leading.

Perfectly explained by the post above. This setup is called block leading, you can Google or search here for more information on this style. It is quite efficient when you have it dialed. Some advantages are that each climber gets a rest after each pitch, where as swapping leads one person climbs two pitches while the other has to belay 2 pitches. Another advantage is the stronger member of the party is always doing all the leading which can speed things up quite a bit. Disadvantages are obvious, the gear has to be switched between follower and leader after each pitch, this can be sped up a little by having the follower use a gear sling.

Also, don't use the rope for building the anchor. Use cord, webbing, slings, or anything else; otherwise you do have to build a new anchor to switch. (You didn't say that you using the rope for anchor, but just in case that's what you were thinking)

Thanks guys that explains it perfect. Brady you are correct I wasn't building anchors with ropes. I use webbing or cordelette.

Thank you so much!!

a few notes

- if you built the anchor with the rope its not the end of the world .. the follow simply takes 2-3 biners and cloves in the same way as the leader ... obviously its not ideal but sometimes you just wuzz out of a lead =P

- if your not quite sure who is going to lead the next pitch, flake the rope equally around the the tie in

- with twins/doubles and a (semi)hanging belay, just reflake the rope ... the rope flip will become a cluster fcuk eventually at the worst possible time when yr climbers on the sharp end

;)

That's my fear. Flipping the rope can go bad real quick. The end of the world? No. Pain in the ass? A little bit.

Mark lewin wrote:That's my fear. Flipping the rope can go bad real quick. The end of the world? No. Pain in the ass? A little bit.

An experienced belayer will proactively drop several loops of rope before feeding it from the flake

This isnt always possible as there may be feature below you for the rope to get caught, but even then its almost always possible to drop at least ONE loop without it getting caught

This is absolutely critical with assisted locking devices as those devices are much more sensitive to the feed rope being in a good position

With the good ole ATC you could just gank the rope through with a bit of muscle even if the feed side has a slight tangle .... Not so much with the smart or grigri

;)

Maybe it's irrational, but I tend to restack as a rule. It really doesn't take that long (even lap coil to lap coil, as in this case). It seems to me that the time you save by flipping could easily be blown by just a single issue in feeding it back out.

Also, a good leader in this scenario will decide where the second should belay the next pitch from, and set the anchor accordingly. This little bit of foresight makes life way easier.

Practice makes perfect, with nice neat coils and a good flip there is no need to restack. The key is to make sure the loops are different enough length that they don't accident loop over one another. These are skills that can be easily practiced on the ground and Will pay off in efficiency when on the wall.

wfscot wrote:
> Maybe it's irrational, but I tend to restack as a rule
> ... It seems to me that the time you save by flipping could
> easily be blown by just a single issue in feeding it back out.

If you lead mostly Trad multi-pitch, then restacking costs very little time, since one climber can re-stack while the next Leader sorts and re-racks the trad gear collected from cleaning the previous pitch.

But what I've seen in Europe ... where experienced multi-pitch leaders get lots of practice leading "blocks" of pitches protected by bolts ... is that they get good at stacking the rope carefully while belaying the follower up, and then they just flip the rope with no restacking.

The frequency of rope-tangle mishaps is low enough so that the accumulated time saved by "flipping the stack" on many many pitches outweighs the occasional rope-tangle hassle.

Ken

Almost everything around where I live is trad and we normally just take our time and restack but I have flipped stacks of rope before. Rarely have issues with flipping a stack but if you know the next pitch has a crux you don't want to get stuck at make sure you either make sure the rope is clean for that section before you get to it or just restack.

Last thing you want is an unprotected runout section that you get stuck at due to a rope mess. (probably rare on alot of bolted routes but i know of some with 60ft runouts)

Climber A leads pitch. Sets up anchor. Uses an a personal Anchor system, i.e. daisy, sling, etc. and belays Climber B up. Once B is anchored in also. Both A and B *untie* and swap ends. Avoids the cluster of the rope swap, and I'd much rather untie than flake the whole rope, especially when climbing on twins or doubles. I've done it both ways and really it comes down to who I'm climbing with. With some parters I don't mind the rope flip as with those partners they have good enough rope management skills that no matter what happens, it'll work out and won't be an issue. With other, less experienced partners, we both untie.

Not a fan of untying on multi-pitch. Have done it as a threesome using double ropes - just not routinely and especially not with inexperienced folks.

Just get your game dialed (e.g., flipping stacks from tie in to tie in) before moving up in difficulty / length. It'll pay off. Besides, many times I find the ledge is big enough to unceremoniously toss it there where, next lead, the rope pulls from the bottom almost as easily from the top.

Edit to add:

• I like DrRockso RRG's "pancake stack" described below - does not add too much "ceremony" for my taste. :-)

On a ledge I like to "pancake stack" in a small round pile smashing it down with my foot every few coils, then squish it all together and flip the stack over so it feeds from top. It works well if you can do a nice neat little pile.

j sittler wrote:Have B clove into the anchor just like A. A should have coiled the loops over his tie in point from small to large (opposite of normal). The coiled rope can then be flipped over onto B's tie in, so that the smallest loops are now on top for ease of feeding. Once B puts A on belay, A can take himself off the anchor and begin leading.

Bam, Done... Next.