How do you avoid falling on your daisy when aiding? What am I missing?

Getting back into aid after a 1.5 yr hiatus and had a quick question.

You are half way up a pitch with plenty of pieces in and as you bounce test your next piece it pops. You now fall back onto your last piece which has your second aider on it which it connected to you via your daisy chain (I use yates adjustables).

So, how do you avoid a large force fall on a daisy? I know some people don't connect their aiders to their daisies but I want to. So, what's the best technique to avoid injury during a fall?

Bounce test with your leg first while keeping most of your weight on the last piece. If it blows you still catch yourself standing on the last piece. Same with daisy testing. Helps to climb back down a rung and keep low in the lower aider. As soon as you commit to stand on the higher piece, get your daisy/aider off of it an clip the rope in (if using it as protection). There's still a window for a daisy fall, but the risk is minimal if you've adequately bounced the piece.

I bounce test all suspect pieces while standing in my aiders.So if the piece pops I go nowhere! If your already on that piece your bounce testing your doing it wrong! (IMO) How do you bounce test?

There is that half a second moment where you transfer pieces. This moment is the one I am referring to. If you somehow fall before unclipping your last piece?

This is just normal risk I guess? This is what I have been doing.

I've never taken any real daisy fall.

1. Place piece.

2. While still holding onto the last piece, I test the next one. Usually I use my adjustable daisy and test from the waist with my hand and a foot on the last piece. When the upper one fails I don't shock the lower piece, just end up back onto it. My lower daisy is cinched up pretty short with a handful of inches of slack.

3. While sitting on upper piece, in the position it was just tested in (and very unlikely to now pop) I unclip, extend, and stow the lower aider. I then clip in the rope. If I am directly over a ledge and scared I will clip the rope first and deal with the extra cluster that creates, but this should be avoided if the fall is clean and the next piece is not a time bomb.

4. Repeat.

If the next piece is traversing I usually have one hand/foot on each aider and foot bounce the new piece so that I take a little swing if it pops, but still no jarring fall possible.

On easy low angle terrain it might be best to stow the daisy and be careful not to drop the aider, but it has been many walls since I had to do much low angle aiding.

Randy,
you will be clipped to the last piece with a fifi or quickdraw. So the daisy isn't that relevant. Alternatively, get low to test and hang onto the carabiner on the last piece.
Finally, you can daisy rather than foot test the new piece - if it fails you will be firmly standing in the lower aider and won't fall.

Don't use daisies and you won't have to worry about it.

My experience People that don't use daisies for testing. (Or test properly) log more airtime than others that do. I personally don't like to fall on harder aid. But if all your doing is easier non threatening aid. Go for it. Less cluster is nice..

I haven't done any in depth research on the yates adjustable daisies. I wonder if the cam buckle would slip if you fell hard on it...?

I bounce test using my upper daisy while my feet are unweighted but still in my lower aides and my hand still on the lower aiders grab loop that way if it blows I can catch myself with my feet and hand in my lower set of aides.

randy88fj62 wrote:I haven't done any in depth research on the yates adjustable daisies. I wonder if the cam buckle would slip if you fell hard on it...?

I have been using 2 regular daisies and an adjustable fifi called the Alfrifri, made by Dave Allfrey and Skot Richards. You can buy them from Skot directly. So far I am really liking it better than adjustable daisies and a regularfifi.

Could you elaborate as to why you like the system over yates adjustables?

I find the yates adjustables to be really nice, especially when in overhanging territory. They do get twisted sometimes.

randy88fj62 wrote:Could you elaborate as to why you like the system over yates adjustables? I find the yates adjustables to be really nice, especially when in overhanging territory. They do get twisted sometimes.

I like have the hook on the buckle instead of a carabiner. For one, I only need to extend the adjustable fifi when I'm using a fifi, which I try not to use unless it is steep and I need it. With the adjustable daisies, you are pretty much required to re-extend it for every move. And because it is a fifi hook, I find it easier to pop the hook out of pockets/pieces instead of unclipping a carabiner. Downside is that I have 2 daisies and a adjustable fifi instead of just two adjustable daisies. But it's all personal preference I suppose.

I took a 3-4 ft super hard fall onto a Yates adj daisy.

Held just fine, and I weighed 180 + gear.

Put me in the hurt locker though.

Hard aid takes a long time because you need to be 100% sure you are not gonna rip.

Most falls occur on easy terrain when you are not as focused.

That allfrifi looks good.

I used the Alfrifi again today, someone gave me a Silent Partner and took it out for a few aid pitches today. The Alfrifi eliminated the need for my Yates adjustable daisies, you just need to be extra careful not to drop your ladders. I never liked using daisies, too much clutter.

When doing some serious bounce testing I typically give it a couple good yanks with my hand. Then I put one foot in the top piece, while maintaining most of my body weight on the bottom piece. Give it a couple of good kicks. Then I just commit and hop into the top aider. Why would you want to bounce test after you have completely committed to the top piece? If it doesn't hold, you guarantee a fall. This method only failed me once, when a hook blew in that split second before I unclipped the last piece from my aider. It was a bolt. I was rope soloing. It hurt.

bouncing on your piece after committing is asking for air time! haha...
But kick testing is not an accurate way to insure it will hold your body weight. And you definitely don't want to kick test your hooks. I suggest using a daisy to bounce test via sit/bounce test while in your lower aider or whatever fancy adjustable device you use. Or if you don't like any daisy of any kind. Clip your self to your aider or sling to sit bounce test.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:I used the Alfrifi again today, someone gave me a Silent Partner and took it out for a few aid pitches today. The Alfrifi eliminated the need for my Yates adjustable daisies, you just need to be extra careful not to drop your ladders. I never liked using daisies, too much clutter.

Hi, do you have a link to the Alfrifi please I can't find it via google. Thanks

Kauait wrote: And you definitely don't want to kick test your hooks.

Well ya, thin hooking has always involved a small amount of hope for me.

here is a article on testing from a master...

andy-kirkpatrick.com/articl…

David Coley wrote: Hi, do you have a link to the Alfrifi please I can't find it via google. Thanks

Skot Richards makes the Alfrifi at home in small runs. I think he is on Supertopo under the name El Cap Viking or you can find him on Facebook too. There is not a website that sells them, you just need to contact him and if he has any he is more than willing to sell them.