Outdoor gear labs new belay device review

Pete Spri wrote: Was super unimpressed with their old one. Didn't have even Half of the Main manufacturers belay devices. I bet this one is no different. Edit: Nope, again, very little coverage of different types of devices. I think the problem is these guys say they buy their own gear to test and don't have the finances to actually buy and test that many.

Not that im a big fan of OGL, but it takes alot to test devices "properly"

Im not talking about folks who get free swag, take it out for a climb or two and write an "OMG new gear!!!" so called "review" ... But actual testing and months of usage and wearing out of gear

If you look at what folks use OGL has the most common devices covered (other than the basic ATC which they reviews previously" and most other devices are either rare in murica or variations on the tube

Now one may not agree with their ratings, but they did more than do a few climbs at the crag and write an OMG piece typical of "reviews" these days

It took me years to figure out all the intracasies and failure modes of the smart, and there may well be stuff i dont know about it .... And thats one device, its near impossible to get the same depth with several devices

Some of their reviews like the headlamp one are well intentioned but shiet ... Others fail because of individual specific fit like their shoe reviews

This one on belay devices is one of the few about climbing gear that mentions actual issues .... Almost every other review fails horribly in that regard

Now that the onus on belaying has shifted from the belayer to the device, "dude my smart catches automatically", "i give beginners grigris" ... Its imperative that these possible failure modes with devices be IDed in public

Petzl to their credit does an excellent job with the grigri ... Other manufacturers not so much

;)

bearbreeder wrote: Now that the onus on belaying has shifted from the belayer to the device, "dude my smart catches automatically", "i give beginners grigris" ... Its imperative that these possible failure modes with devices be IDed in public

Do you really think someone who doesent even understand the obvious ways in which the device can fail is going to be motivated enough to learn about the advanced ways in which the device can fail? The types of people who research the advanced ways in which a device can fail are not the people that need talking to, it's all those who dont do the research that need the talk.

20 kN wrote: Do you really think someone who doesent even understand the obvious ways in which the device can fail is going to be motivated enough to learn about the advanced ways in which the device can fail? The types of people who research the advanced ways in which a device can fail are not the people that need talking to, it's all those who dont do the research that need the talk.

Do you think that information shouldnt be made readily available ?

It wasnt too long ago that folks were belaying with the "old method" on the grigri and it was though to be a "hands free" device .... Some folks still do

Or that folks were belaying the "old way" with the cinch, until the DAV IDed the issue and trango updated their instructions .... How many know specifically to spot for pin wear?

How many folks are still belaying the "old way" in autoblock with the megajul, the majority of users i bet since edelrid did a stealth update of their instructions without any warning ....

Each of those cases have had real world "failures" and consequences

Whether folks listen or not is up to them, but the information needs to be out thete and not just on MP

Let me ask you as a cinch fan ....if the device fails to catch if the pin is a bit worn .... Can you use your awwwwwsum belay skills to hold the rope on a big lead fall?

;)

bearbreeder wrote: Do you think that information shouldnt be made readily available ? It wasnt too long ago that folks were belaying with the "old method" on the grigri and it was though to be a "hands free" device .... Some folks still do Or that folks were belaying the "old way" with the cinch, until the DAV IDed the issue and trango updated their instructions .... How many know specifically to spot for pin wear? How many folks are still belaying the "old way" in autoblock with the megajul, the majority of users i bet since edelrid did a stealth update of their instructions without any warning .... Each of those cases have had real world "failures" and consequences Whether folks listen or not is up to them, but the information needs to be out thete and not just on MP Let me ask you as a cinch fan ....if the device fails to catch if the pin is a bit worn .... Can you use your awwwwwsum belay skills to hold the rope on a big lead fall? ;)

It's not the old way, it's the incorrect way. No manufacturer has ever approved belaying like this....



....which is by FAR the most common way of incorrectly belaying (or some variation of that).

Almost no one can understand how a GriGri works, let go of the rope completely to feed slack out of the GriGri, and honestly think it's the safest way to belay. They know they are taking short cuts, they just dont care because they are lazy or complacent. Accordingly, if they dont care enough to do the minimum, they surely dont care enough to even bother to read your posts let alone abide by them. If you want to save the world one belayer at a time, it will have to happen in person when you can call them out face to face.

Jfriday1 wrote: Never saved it, I emailed them in Dec and got a response in about a week from them. you could also send an email: edelrid.de/index.php?lang=1…

Thanks for the link and for sharing J! Very interesting....

20 kN wrote: It's not the old way, it's the incorrect way. The awesome, let-go-of-the-rope belay method you speak to has never been an approved way to belay, not with the GriGri, Cinch, or any other device. The guys who belay like that probably know in the back of their mind that's not the proper way to belay, they just dont give a damn because they are lazy, complacent, or whatever else. In which case, what makes you think they will even read anything you have to say let alone abide by it? Obviously there is nothing negative about pointing out flaws, but your target audience is not the type of people who have any interest in reading anything you or anyone else posts. If you want to correct their crappy belay methods, it's going to have to be in person.

Oh come on so all the petzl videos are wasted????

Here is the old petzl belay method .... Note the minimal, if any, grip on the rope when fast feeding

youtu.be/aSVchbjVKLE

Here is a guy who got dropped quite a bit farther because some "highly experienced" old geezer used the old method

m.reddit.com/r/climbing/com…

Now you can go off about how putting that information out there is all useless ...

But at least the information is out there on something more than random posts on some intrawebz forums

;)

bearbreeder wrote: Oh come on so all the petzl videos are wasted???? Here is the old petzl belay method .... Note the minimal, if any, grip on the rope when fast feeding youtu.be/aSVchbjVKLE Here is a guy who got dropped quite a bit farther because some "highly experienced" old geezer used the old method m.reddit.com/r/climbing/com… Now you can go off about how putting that information out there is all useless ... But at least the information is out there on something more than random posts on some intrawebz forums ;)

Except the video still shows the same thing Petzl says now, which is:

letting go of the rope to hold open the cam all day has never been an approved method of belaying

grigri

No manufacturer has ever approved of belaying like this:





If someone is using an old school method that needs updating, fine update away but those who most need a lesson are not the type to read the forums, they are the type that need instruction in person. Get to it Breeder, go to your gym and school away.

20 kN wrote: Where exactly in that video does it show letting go of the rope for an extended period is the appropriate way to belay? That old school video still shows the exact same thing Petzl has been saying forever, which is:

Yr pic is NOT the old belay method watch the vid again

Whuddah solid grip he has on da rope

The old belay method is PRONE to folks taking the hands off the rope ... Theres a REASON why petzl changed to the new method and no longer recommends the old one

And guess what the new method was first publicized on a certain climbing forum BEFORE petzl adopted it

But lets cut to the chase you are arguing that its simply better not to publicized the various failure modes ... The rest is just you usual faff

Do you want me to post up the real world "failure" of the undocumented smart issue we posted up not so long ago on MP ... The MPer had to go off belay in the middle of a pitch for it to be fixed

How about the megajul autoblock inversion that happened to an MPer ....

Or how the old guide instructions suddenly go changed to tell you to backup a lower off autoblock ... Aftet a few accidents

Since you are a cinch fan you do realize that the pin issue was first IDed on a climbing forums as well as the fix

How about trangos sudden change of belay instructions for the cinch, there were folks quite recently who werent aware and are still belaying the old way ....

I really dont know why yr whinning about why its NOT a good idea to inform folks of the various failure modes of devices

;)

Jfriday1 wrote: The mega Jul in Auto-Block mode is only rated for 8kn. I had emailed edelrid asking about it. I love my Megajul for belaying off the harness, but I wont use it in auto-block, or rap in lock mode either. Plus it works great for ice climbing.

7kN is the requirement for the UIAA strength test for ALL belay devices with the rope fixed. Correctly used as a guide plate it is inconceivably you could ever achieve that level of force and with most ropes the device will release them anyway long before that, in particular the MegaJul.

BigFeet wrote: I agree. The death cam makes #1 while the Smart brings up the rear. I have $100.00+ belay devices, but find myself usually using the one that costs less than $50.00 - go figure.

I've used nothing but my smart alpine for the past 5-6 years and love it. It is a bit jerky on rappel but it is easily compensated by flipping the device and backing it up. I think it feeds slack quickly and efficiently and they give it 6? and a 7 for catch-ability....really? Interesting....

Jim Titt wrote: 7kN is the requirement for the UIAA strength test for ALL belay devices with the rope fixed. Correctly used as a guide plate it is inconceivably you could ever achieve that level of force and with most ropes the device will release them anyway long before that, in particular the MegaJul.

7-8kn is not enough for me when it is the only piece of gear in the system. You can generate a lot of force when you have only 4 feet of slack in the system and the second falls. The belayer should be on top of taking out slack but there is always odd ball situations in climbing.

Lame that they tested the Eddy and not the Pivot...

On a different topic, if anyone wants a Matik and doesn't want to pay $150-$200, you can get it at EpicTV for 110 Euros with free shipping to the US.

from the Smart Alpine review, lowering/rappelling section:
"Compared to the Edelrid Mega Jul, the Smart Alpine is a little more jerky. Unlike that device and many classic tube models, the Smart Alpine isn't reversible, which limits your friction options."

1. I can't even imagine more jerky than the Mega Jul on rap in lock mode
2. the Smart Alpine is reversible for lower-friction raps... did they read the directions?

Noah Yetter wrote:I can't even imagine more jerky than the Mega Jul on rap in lock mode

So true.

Chris Graham wrote: I've used nothing but my smart alpine for the past 5-6 years and love it. It is a bit jerky on rappel but it is easily compensated by flipping the device and backing it up. I think it feeds slack quickly and efficiently and they give it 6? and a 7 for catch-ability....really? Interesting....

I hear you. My go to devices, as of late, have been the Smart and Pivot with the BD ATC Guide in there at times. They all work just fine for me, and I find they are more versatile than the GriGri at a much lower cost. I would be a bit more agitated dropping/losing a $100.00+ device, or replacing after worn down than a Smart or other.

Noah Yetter wrote: 2. the Smart Alpine is reversible for lower-friction raps... did they read the directions?

As Chris stated before, this is something available with the Smart, and I would have to say I'm scratching my head on this one too.
urbanrock.com/files/Smart+A…

The smoothness of the alpine smart is VERY dependant on the rope and the biner for lead ... The recomended mammut biner is shiet for thicker 10mm+ ropes once they get a bit stiff a d fuzzay

As to the instructions, i dont believe that the current new ones shows the reversing of the smart .... I wonder why

Note that rapping in reverses mode, its quite difficult to boink up and aggressively test yr system before taking off yr safety

As to cost IME the smart is the MORE expensive device .... I go through a belay biner every 6-12 months .... Or after 100-200+ days out doors

It wears out biners like crazy

;)

Don't use the Megajul in Lock mode for Rap. if your rope is over an edge.

The on/off bouncing force of the rap will saw the rope over the edge. I core shot a new rope that way.

Works fine in regular mode.

I dug out my Sticht plate just to make sure it still worked..it does.

Jfriday1 wrote:Don't use the Megajul in Lock mode for Rap. if your rope is over an edge. The on/off bouncing force of the rap will saw the rope over the edge. I core shot a new rope that way. Works fine in regular mode.

That's a good point. Thanks for posting.

The reviewers picked the BD ATC Guide over the Reverso, mostly because it works better with less friction for guide mode. Is it really any better, or does it suck just as much in guide mode as the Reverso?

Jim Turner wrote:The reviewers picked the BD ATC Guide over the Reverso, mostly because it works better with less friction for guide mode. Is it really any better, or does it suck just as much in guide mode as the Reverso?

Depends on the diameter of the rope. If you are using a single, go for the ATC, which has deeper grooves. For twins or halves, I appreciate the additional braking power afforded by the reverso.