Back country climbing?

I am fortunate enough to live in a part of the West that is still uncrowded and full of wild, empty spaces. Assuming I will be out adventuring in the future, any stories, tips, advice for climbing in undeveloped areas? I am not talking route development at all, and (probably) not alpine climbing, yet, yikes, but most likely canyon basalts and perhaps some mountain limestones/other. Top rope/rappels likely, maybe some trad on short, reasonable stuff. And yes, this is a whole lot like a canyoneering question, but preferably from a climber's perspective. And yes, I know I'm going to die, and no, I won't be hiring a guide. Thanks, all! Best, H. : )

If it's wild, make sure your belayer is wearing a helmet for choss coming off. Makes sense to use an assisted locking belay device as well in case a rock hits their belay hand.

I think the main thing is to be very methodical and triple check things and be aware of consequences (not that you don't want to be that way even at a roadside crag). Say you somehow drop your rope or the wind blows it so it gets jammed tight into a crack or around a tree while rapping etc, or twist your ankle on a root. Dropping your rope at a popular crag with others around is usually not going to be more than a pain in the ass and extremely embarrassing, but doing it out in the middle of nowhere can have far more serious consequences. I do a fair amount of it (as much as anywhere in NH can be considered really outback), much of it alone while prepping new routes and really like it, partially for the extra focus and self reliance it requires. If with a partner you want them to be aware too. I am pretty picky about who I climb with, but even more so further out. It is like being out to sea in a boat. You don't want an idiot who is going to goof off and fall overboard.

I'd brush up on your self-rescue skills and first aid - there's some good books out there if you can't take a course. Granted we don't ever plan to get hurt but especially when climbing out in remote areas, knowing some basics is a good skill set to have! The goal is to not have to call the chopper in unless you have assessed the situation and someone is going to die or be otherwise seriously harmed. A good book that jumps to mind is David Fasulo's "Self Rescue" from the "How to Climb" series. He pulls together a lot of good info and skills in one compact book.

Thanks, guys! This all sounds about right, and is pretty much how my climbing partner and I are most of the time, actually. Anyone have any good stories, or other tidbits to share? Ever get stuck? Amusing/challenging problems to solve?

If you're thinking about using approach shoes instead of climbing shoes to save weight/space, I'd suggest climbing in them (outside or in the gym) to get a feel and adjust. Other than that, a healthy affinity for choss and an adventurous spirit can be the difference between an awesome experience and a suffer-fest. Have fun and savor the solitude.

Old lady H wrote:I know I'm going to die

To me from this remote distance it's sounding like you don't really know. Or ...
like maybe you don't know what it's like not to die, but to be seriously injured out in the backcountry.

Old lady H wrote:and no, I won't be hiring a guide.

Why not? Because your life + health isn't worth making a payment to a guide?

You'll learn way more and better about safety and success from climbing with an experienced guide out there in the actual context of wild backcountry rock than you will from three-quarters of the "expert" suggestions on forums.

Ken

kenr wrote: To me from this remote distance it's sounding like you don't really know. Or ... like maybe you don't know what it's like not to die, but to be seriously injured out in the backcountry. Why not? Because your life + health isn't worth making a payment to a guide? You'll learn way more and better about safety and success from climbing with an experienced guide out there in the actual context of wild backcountry rock than you will from three-quarters of the "expert" suggestions on forums. Ken

Ummm.. how to put this kindly? Are you perhaps on the east coast? I'm a native, small town westerner, with the self sufficient mind set that entails, and have a pretty good understanding of true wilderness, risk and consequences. People don't just get lost for a scary hour or two walking in the woods up the road from the donut shop here. They disappear. Days, weeks, months, sometimes forever. I have nothing against guides per se, but then you're on somebody else's trip. Fine sometimes, other times not. Like paying for a cruise or sailing a boat. : )

I wouldn't view hiring a guide as "hand holding" think of it as a fast track to knowing what you don't know.

There's a steep and unforgiving learning curve in a vertical alpine rock environment. You're already up against hazards you can't control and ignorance shouldn't be one of them..

Good Luck!

Hang on there Old Lady H with the easterner comments. Don't forget that the Adirondack Park is the largest in the lower 48, as big as Vermont or something like that. The cliffs may not be as large as some in the west, but there's plenty of backcountry climbing in the east.

Hiring a guide - where is the self-discovery in that? Does anyone know what self-discovery means or appreciate the adventure of it?

Your gonna learn more from a guide ? really...why ?

Belaying is belaying and placing gear is placing gear..it doesn't matter if your roadside or in the wild. You can also get screwed on either coast just as easy.

I know couple of people who have posted here and trust them way more than many guides I have met.

H- the best part is the animals you get to meet (the real ones)..A bull moose when you round a bend at a river..Nice!...The big kitty eyeing you from a ledge or eagles doing the same from above

Back country...I like your style! My experience is that being thoughtfully ready for any eventuality is key. Bring everything and have it well organized. The ride should have enough to last a week past your plans as well as a big first aid box, and an extra tire. Generally you end up helping others more often than your own team but every once in a while shit happens and you are glad you have been hauling all that stuff around.

If you like volcanic and no crowds, check out the Jungle mountainproject.com/v/jungl…

I was going to post something helpful... then she slagged off the Eastern US while bragging about her self-sufficiency (while asking for help on a message board nonetheless).

Instead I'll suggest that you learn some manners, humble yourself, and realize that there are incredibly experienced and talented "East Coast" climbers who know far more than you ever will with the attitude you've portrayed. For example...Mark Twight lived in the East for a time. There are plenty more.

H- I think you need to hire a consultant to tell you whether you need to hire a guide.
If so, you'll need to employ a guide selection service to identify the right team.
The Guide service can then develop a program to get you ready to travel outdoors.

Make sure to check everybody's certifications.

With some work, you may become competent to visit Adirondack Park.
lakeplacid.com/explore/tour…

A long-time partner of mine recently said, "what I like best about our climbing together is solving 'problems' together."

The trick is to not get too close to the edge. Not everyone is after that kind of experience or at least the same degree of experience.

Carry a PLB/spot/inReach/satphone ...

Self reliance is all fine and dandy but when the chips are totally down dont play russian roulette with yr partners life on the account of some pride

Remember if you die hiking or soloing in remote areas thats up to you and its your life

If you partner goes kaput climbing because of someones pride ...

Sorry, east coast, love you guys too! Just, pleeaaassse, don't tempt me regarding sizes of areas.... ;-) And, I promise, if I ever have the opportunity, I will LOVE having you show off your places you love!

About the whole guide deal, as I said, I'm not anti guide, exactly, and have pondered how I might manage a class somewhere. Problem one, the small one, is to come up with money. That I could maybe manage. Once. Problem two, nearest guides (and where they conduct their business) are 3, 4, 5 and more driving hours away.

By the way, the "cute kitties" mentioned somewhere above, wander along the bike path I commute on, every winter! The big cats are very rarely seen, but the tracks are there. A couple years ago a young guy was treed on the grounds of a hospital, right next to the freeway. Turns out, I only missed him by about a half hour! A moose has wandered through town a couple times, last time causing a huge police turnout because they (pretty reasonably) deemed the big guy a bit of a traffic hazard. Also had a cow elk galloping up the street right by our house, and a badger. He was by far the crankiest.

Thanks for all of your input. You people are just awesome!

Bearbreeder, I'll ask about the devices. My partner in this is both SAR and an EMT, so I'm good, but if he goes down, it's maybe a different story. He and I have both considered this, especially as he often heads out on solo trips. We both know what risks we are comfortable with, what we are not, and will stick to our guns on it.

Best, Old lady H.

I'm an East-Coaster, but the majority of my climbing has been back-country Western climbing---and a lot of it, so it is a mistake to conflate the coast of origin with experience.

I learned about climbing the way you propose to, which is by going out and doing it. You only get "experience," whatever that really means, from a lot of exposure to the environment.

If you get into a mess with a guide, you'll learn a lot, but otherwise a guide in the back country may not be much different from a guide in a less remote setting. In any case, if you do go with a guide, I would specifically ask to go places the guide is totally unfamiliar with, because what you want to learn about is how to deal with the unfamiliar and the unexpected. Of course, the guide might not be up for that, because he or she will have an inexperienced partner (you) as their support.

The problem with going guided is that it is almost impossible to get out of the client mindset. The guide knows best---that's why you're paying good money---and you aren't likely to question his or her decisions or actively argue about what the best thing to do is. This could be a good way of easing into remote climbing, but sooner or later you'll have to bite the bullet...so I'd say go for it guideless, with the following concerns:

1. You've made sure there are folks back home who have an idea where to look for you and when they should start worrying.

2. You don't buy too enthusiastically into the "light is right" mantra. I'm not saying light isn't right, only that it takes a lot of experience to know how light is how right, and also to understand just what risks are involved in lightness. Better to go with a bit more stuff, suffer, and think about what you could have left behind, and do that over time until you know what works for you.

3. You are fully competent in back-country navigation with map and compass. (GPS is a lovely addition but map and compass is still essential.)

4. You have some basic first-aid skills (WFR-level or better).

5. Here's the main thing:

You are completely able to manage on your own.

If your partner is seriously incapacitated in the back country, there is a decent chance that you will have to leave them and go for help. Nowadays, this is less likely than BITD, when there were no Spot devices or cell phones. But even with the available technology, you still might have to take matters into your own hands, and then your ability to do it all yourself will really matter. It is also possible, god forbid, that you are the only one alive and have to rescue yourself.

This might mean that you have some ability to solo or rope-solo easy to moderate ground if the top is very close, but is more likely to mean that you are are able to make multiple rappels in a back-country setting, which means you decide where to rappel and when to get off rappel, you construct all the anchors, and you are prepared to deal with issues like stuck ropes. Of course belay-escape is part of all this. These are all skills you can learn and practice in the "front-country," quite possibly with the help of a guide.

6. Folks are going to mention more involved self-rescue techniques. By all means learn about them, but realize that you won't be able to manage many of the things in the books. The main take-away's are individual strategies (rather than complicated template routines) that you can apply in situations not envisioned by the book or course.

I'd say the the thing that is most likely to be invaluable is knowing how to set up and carry out tandem rappels, so that you can get a moderately injured partner and yourself down. Of course, this still requires all the "on your own" skills.

Thanks so much!

#1 just can't be stressed too much. I'm the disaster plan b at home, so usually he gives me his approximate driving route, where he expects to park the rig, where he's headed, any possible alternate plan, reminds me what he's wearing, and, most importantly the hard and fast 24 hour clock time to call 911. It's just a quick text, and just should not be skipped.

Thanks also for all the rest!