Speed Big Walling as Four

That was Mason back in 2013. Dynamic haul line would have probably saved him from the static shock load when his haul line finally caught him against his haul loop. Horrible scene. I still use static haul lines though, you can't protect against everything and the ratio of benefit to risk is acceptable to me. Ymmv.

Doesn't somebody make a tagline that is static at low loads by will act dynamically if shock loaded? It was designed for the dreaded scenario of a stuck lead line on rappel, so one could safely lead on the tag line to retrieve the stuck lead line.

kevin deweese wrote:That was Mason back in 2013. Dynamic haul line would have probably saved him from the static shock load when his haul line finally caught him against his haul loop. Horrible scene. I still use static haul lines though, you can't protect against everything and the ratio of benefit to risk is acceptable to me. Ymmv.

Also notable, hauling with a dynamic rope would take 30% longer (most dynamic ropes stretch 30%) and would quickly raise the impact force of the rope (ability to absorb force from a fall, so that the energy is not fully transferred to the ancor). I foolishly once attempted to rig a very taught Tyrollean across a river with an old 11 mm 50m rope, which would potentially under a dynamic load, stretch to 65m. The rope is now like a 10.5 mm 57m rope, which will still only stretch to 65m which is only about 14%, so during a fall, the rope will now put more than double the force on an ancor.

Just to be clear the tag line is different from the haul line. The haul line is always static. The tag line could be static or dynamic depending on the circumstance.

I wouldn't use a tag line just to protect against a lead line getting cut but if I was using a dynamic tag anyway and I was about to lead a pitch with a lot of loose or dangerous looking rock perhaps I would have my belayer tie off the tag line every 50' or so just in case. Might as well stack the odds in my favor. It's just another potential benefit of this system.

Another benefit of the dynamic tag is as an emergency lead line. If your lead rope got chopped up by that loose rock and your tag line saved you, you could lead the last two pitches to the top on the tag line. Or if you had an emergency and had to do a mega rap you tie all three ropes together and rap the hell off of that thing.

I've used this system in groups of two and three with good results and it keeps evolving over the years.

I've already expressed my general opinion that climbing as a team of four is not a great idea, particularly if one's wall experience is limited. Though if you can find an out of the way climb where you can enjoy the clusterf#$@ at leisure and not force it on other, it's your experience. Enjoy. Having said that:

Long Duk Dong wrote:The haul line is always static.

Absolutely not true. Lots of folks use static lines for hauling because it does make it easier to haul heavy loads, but a good number of folks haul on a dynamic lines and even rely on it as a backup lead line should the lead line get damaged.

Hello all,

Just wanted to give an update for anyone interested in seeing how our trip turns out. We leave next week. Since we're spending a month in Yosemite, I figured that a blog would be a better format (as opposed to a TR). Looking forward to meeting some of you in the Valley.

Check out the blog at goodlooksandcamhooks.wordpr…

I'm up there every weekend, will def be watching when you go for the push

Alex Wyvill wrote:Hello all, Just wanted to give an update for anyone interested in seeing how our trip turns out. We leave next week. Since we're spending a month in Yosemite/

I hope you have a lot of fun. I'm off to Greenland in July, and I'm guessing we will be climbing in a 4 to 6 person team on the wall. So that's going to be one big pile of ropes at the belays.

following

These boys seem to have figured their system out and are indeed sending in the valley.
Nice work guys!

K Weber wrote:Speed Climbing + Hauling = WRONG

This whole discussion should've ended right here.

Way to go Vandy Boys! It took some cojones to post up last year and then see it through. Congrats!

Where and what are they sending? I wish them the best of luck. I love being on the Captain, but getting off the ground and getting to the top are two different things. On a related note, I was in the Valley last Sat/Sun. and could only see one party on the Nose. Perhaps there were lots of other parties I just didn't see, but it seemed strangely empty.

Fat Dad wrote:Where and what are they sending? I wish them the best of luck. I love being on the Captain, but getting off the ground and getting to the top are two different things. On a related note, I was in the Valley last Sat/Sun. and could only see one party on the Nose. Perhaps there were lots of other parties I just didn't see, but it seemed strangely empty.

Check here Blog

Nice blog! Looks like they're getting their system dialed (and having fun).

Damn, very impressive! Keep that send train going!

Hey everyone!

Final update on this thread from me, but yesterday we topped out a three-day on the Nose and are heading home! In total, we did SFWC, WFLT, RNWFHD and the Nose this month with some smaller routes thrown in.

Long story short, climbing as four is a total blast, and you can move very quickly with very minimal effort thanks to team hauling. We kept the bag under 150 pounds for every wall even with the portaledge. Speed came down to having aid basics dialed, block leads and short fixing. We brought four lines: leader took a 70m lead and tag, cleaner tailed a 60m static jug line, and first hauler tailed a 60m haul line. Second hauler released the bags, lowered out and helped the bag over bulges. All in all, best experience of my life, it's very manageable if you dial in your systems. Ignore those that tell you otherwise!

I just wanted to say congrats on the team send!

This is an extremely satisfying way to end this thread. After reading through all of the comments on this thread and experiencing a few cluster fuck belays with 4+ on some climbs, I had my doubts. You guys fucking killed it though.

Congrats on the sends, that is an impressive bunch of climbs!

Awesome season!!!

How much water did you have on your Nose ascent? Keeping it all below 150 pounds, including a ledge, for a party of 4 in late June, is pretty amazing, hard to believe, actually.