Help plan our Europe trip!

My fiance and I are planning to spend a little over 2 weeks on a mini-honeymoon in June and have some ideas but reaching out to the good people on MP for input never hurts. Obviously we'd rather spend 6 months but given the constraints I'm looking for advice on maximizing climbing and a variety of travel without spreading it too thin, and also specifically regarding the season and getting good conditions. Here's the thought:

Flying to Venice or nearby and renting a Spicy Camper Van in Slovenia. These are decked out to sleep and eat and will allow us flexibility with our plans. Spending 8 days or so around Slovenia, Croatia, or the Dolomites. Too hot for places like Osp or Paklenica in early June? Shady crag recommendations? Most interested in the long routes in the Dolomites but I'm afraid it's a little too early in the season there? What's a minimum amount of time recommended in that area to climb a few long classics and really enjoy it? Better off saving it for another trip when we have weeks to spend there?

Kalymnos. Definitely want to go there, I know it's warm then but willing to chase shade. Hoping to squeeze at least 6 days in, is that enough? Lots of good info around here on lodging and food, any comments on traveling to the island from the aforementioned area? Seems like many possible combinations of bus/train/ferry/plane, looking mainly for most time efficient.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!!!

You can chase shade in Osp and Paklenica. Crni Kal is mostly sunny, but other areas of Osp, mainly Misja Pec, Osp cave and Babna have shade either in the morning or the afternoon. Also, lots of people take a mid day break. Likewise for Paklenica, especially for the long multis. Colibri is in the shade all day, and has about 6 very good routes of about 30 meters each, going 11b to 12a. In Paklenica, we did bake in the shade a few times though in August. There is very good camping in Osp at Camp Vovk, and the Paklenica NP runs a campground right on the coast in Stari Grad. As for the Dolomites, you may want to check out Cinque Torri. The routes are pretty short, the approaches are very easy, and each route ends on top of a tower. Cinque does get very crowded however.

If you need any Italy travel advice I'm happy to give it....if you can find a good price into Venice go for it, but you're much more likely on getting a good price flying into Milan, plus you can fly direct from NYC.
(take Emirates if possible, far superior to any other airline)

Dolomites are sweet, but I prefer the Val Masino or Valle del Orco areas, incredible granite and perfect conditions that time of year. 2 hours north or west of Milano and then you can go back to Milano and fly direct pretty much anywhere in Europe for cheap.....which means in an hour and a half you could be in Mallorca at the perfect time for DWS. A little bit warm for sport then but still lots to do in the shade/ early morning.

If you want to visit any vineyards in Italia hit me up.
Cheers!

Thanks guys!

Any recommendations on English language guidebooks for the Dolomites, Slovenia and Croatia?

climb-europe.com/RockClimbi…

Rockfax guides are reliably excellent, I would go for that one for the Dolomites. When I was there (before the Rockfax came out) I found the "Classic Dolomite Climbs" one was pretty good, and the Alpine Club one was not very good. You'll probably find some useful info for these areas if you search the UKClimbing.com forums.

Slovenija sportnoplezalni vodnik, Sidarta press, covers Slovenia and is in Slovenian and English. Paklenica, by Boris Cujic, from Astroida, is in Croat and English and covers Paklenica. Neither are phenomenal in the amount of detail, but they are comprehensive and fairly accurate. I also saw a comprehensive Croatia guide in the Paklenica visitors center.

The Cinque Torri section on MP is very good and accurate.

We did about a week in Kalymnos in July last year and it was phenomenal (six climbing days plus one travel day to/from Frankfurt). I can't wait to go back. The sun hits most crags around 12-1pm so our ritual was to get up at the crack of dawn, climb until sun hit, and then go to the beach. Honestly the rock is so sharp that we couldn't have climbed longer than that if we'd wanted to.

We threw the trip together very last minute while in Germany visiting family and had no problem getting cheap airfare from Frankfurt -> Kos less than 48 hours before departure! Might be similar coming from other parts of Europe, not sure.

verticalworldtraveler wrote:My fiance and I are planning to spend a little over 2 weeks on a mini-honeymoon in June and have some ideas but reaching out to the good people on MP for input never hurts. Obviously we'd rather spend 6 months but given the constraints I'm looking for advice on maximizing climbing and a variety of travel without spreading it too thin, and also specifically regarding the season and getting good conditions. Here's the thought: Flying to Venice or nearby and renting a Spicy Camper Van in Slovenia. These are decked out to sleep and eat and will allow us flexibility with our plans. Spending 8 days or so around Slovenia, Croatia, or the Dolomites. Too hot for places like Osp or Paklenica in early June? Shady crag recommendations? Most interested in the long routes in the Dolomites but I'm afraid it's a little too early in the season there? What's a minimum amount of time recommended in that area to climb a few long classics and really enjoy it? Better off saving it for another trip when we have weeks to spend there? Kalymnos. Definitely want to go there, I know it's warm then but willing to chase shade. Hoping to squeeze at least 6 days in, is that enough? Lots of good info around here on lodging and food, any comments on traveling to the island from the aforementioned area? Seems like many possible combinations of bus/train/ferry/plane, looking mainly for most time efficient.

My recommendation to people traveling under time constraints is to try not to fit too much in to small amounts of time.
With only just over two weeks, I would really suggest finding one place that satisfies your wants and staying put. Giving yourself less than a week in any locale is really not enough time to become familiar with the areas particular style of climbing and the general lay of the land.
So far you have suggested an itinerary that doesn't seem to take travel time much into account. Remember, anything involving a train, plane or a border is most likely going to eat a full day, regardless of what the actual travel time is.
One way to scale back is to examine what your climbing goals are. Do you want adventure multi pitch, or three-dimensional sport climbing?
Whatever you decide, you're stoked! Have a rad trip.

Fully agree, which is why we are going to save Kalymnos for next time. Renting a camper van for 2 weeks will give us plenty of freedom to go with the flow and avoid a set itinerary. My dolomites guidebook is on the way but was curious peoples opinions on minimum rack and rope requirements. Single set of cams seems adequate? Are two ropes necessary for descents on many longer routes or can I get away with just bringing a 70m? Thanks all!

verticalworldtraveler wrote:Fully agree, which is why we are going to save Kalymnos for next time. Renting a camper van for 2 weeks will give us plenty of freedom to go with the flow and avoid a set itinerary. My dolomites guidebook is on the way but was curious peoples opinions on minimum rack and rope requirements. Single set of cams seems adequate? Are two ropes necessary for descents on many longer routes or can I get away with just bringing a 70m? Thanks all!

Depending what you're climbing on definitely bring some cord for threads, and if on less traveled routes some pitons....and number one in the Dolomites, a helmet!! I think a 70 will cover you but may want to bring two just in case....other's probably know more on this depending on what you're planning to climb specifically

Excellent Dolomite advice at ukclimbing.com/articles/pag…

You can get away with a 70, but may need to avoid some routes. An 80 would get you down pretty much everything. Arco, north of Lake Garda in Italy, is full of climbing shops as that town revolves around climbing, and they should be having sales around that time of year. It is also a fantastic town by the way. Gear was pretty cheap, and 80m is a standard in Europe.

As for a rack, my Dolomite rack was a single set of nuts, a single set of cams, and three tri-cams. This was more than sufficient. You will mostly be clipping old, fixed mank with the occasional bolt.

Regarding concerns about borders, as some have stated, the only border with controls on your itinerary is between Slovenia and Croatia. All you do is flash a passport, and it should not delay you more than a few minutes. Some of the drives however take forever, not because of distances, but because of traffic and small, windy roads.

June is not the ideal time for many places in Europe. It's a bit early for many mountain rock route areas, like the Dolomites, but getting too hot for many sport climbing areas like Kalymnos. Can't you postpone your wedding?! Whilst I'm trying to organise your life for you, can't you swing three weeks off if you're going to fly all that way?

I’d agree about not trying to do too much in too many different places. I’d council remaining flexible, keep a good eye on the weather forecast.

I've spent about a month climbing in the Dolomites and like it a lot. The scenery is great, the food is great, it's not as expensive as Switzerland (still pricey), and some of the climbing is very good. Unofficial overnighting in the campervan is accepted in some places. The weather is typical of a mountain area. The rock is often not great, the easier routes can be very polished, and there are a number of other mountain rock climbing areas in Europe that have much better rock and better climbing in my view, albeit none as extensive as the Dollies. Some of the classic north face routes like the Comici on the Cima Grande will probably be wet due to snow-melt and some descent gullies will be difficult in June. The Cinque Torri are likely to be in condition but are a bit meh in my view, polished and crowded. It’s about 2-3 hours drive from Venice to Cortina, 3-4 hours from Milan. Two 50m half ropes would be ideal and some abseil descents will assume you have these. In many cases a single 80m doubled will get you down. A 70m will frequently be too short. 3-4 cams and a single set of wires will be enough for most routes plus many quick draws and trad. draws for the situ. pegs and occasional bolt.

If the weather is bad, where else could you go?

Val di Mello is a granite valley, long trad. routes (full trad. rack needed) and also some sport and bouldering. Lower altitude and probably better weather than the Dolomites. Some people say it’s a bit like The Valley and why would you come to Europe for a second-class Yosemite?! 4-5 hours drive from Venice, a bit closer to Milan.

Valle dell' Orco, further west in Italy near the Swiss/French border is another granite crack (mostly) climbing area, again lower altitude and so may have better weather or in a different weather system by virtue of being several hundred miles further west. 4-5 hours drive from Venice. I’ve not been here but people I know who know about such things rate it.

There are numerous places in Switzerland, most notably Wendenstock and Ratikon. Dolomites quality mountain scenery with Verdon quality rock. Both are emphatically world class but both pretty adventurous for bolted climbing, 5.11 and up, sometimes a little 5.9R for good measure. You’re in the mountains so the weather may be no better than the Dolomites. Grimsel Pass (long routes, mostly on slabby granite) is a lower altitude, fast drying alternative. These are all 5-6 hours drive from Venice.

Ceuse is in prime condition in June. It’s about 6-7 hours driving from Venice, perhaps slower in a campervan, not allowing for stops, a little less from Milan. The climbing is world-class single pitch sport. Ideally you’d be operating at 5.12 but you could have a good week or more climbing no harder than 5.11. A 70m rope will be fine for most routes.

Verdon will be getting warm but still be climbable. The climbing and ambience is magnificent, immaculate limestone of much higher quality than the Dolomites. Classic long routes from easy 5.10 to 5.13, the easier tend to be semi-bolted trad., the harder sportingly-bolted sport. There are also shorter sport routes on surrounding cliffs if you fancy a mellower day. It’s about 7-8 hours drive from Venice, not so far from Milan. Campervan parking is fine, there are also campsites. Food and scenery are both great, it’s Provence! Ropes and gear as for Dolomites, perhaps more cams for the traditional, easier, crack routes.

Have fun!

I recommended Mello and Orco for the very same reasons....and way less crowds, and Milan is just easier, cheaper, and easy access to France and Switzerland

duncan... wrote:June is not the ideal time for many places in Europe. It's a bit early for many mountain rock route areas, like the Dolomites, but getting too hot for many sport climbing areas like Kalymnos. Can't you postpone your wedding?! Whilst I'm trying to organise your life for you, can't you swing three weeks off if you're going to fly all that way? I’d agree about not trying to do too much in too many different places. I’d council remaining flexible, keep a good eye on the weather forecast. I've spent about a month climbing in the Dolomites and like it a lot. The scenery is great, the food is great, it's not as expensive as Switzerland (still pricey), and some of the climbing is very good. Unofficial overnighting in the campervan is accepted in some places. The weather is typical of a mountain area. The rock is often not great, the easier routes can be very polished, and there are a number of other mountain rock climbing areas in Europe that have much better rock and better climbing in my view, albeit none as extensive as the Dollies. Some of the classic north face routes like the Comici on the Cima Grande will probably be wet due to snow-melt and some descent gullies will be difficult in June. The Cinque Torri are most likely to be in condition but are a bit meh in my view. It’s about 2-3 hours drive from Venice to Cortina, 3-4 hours from Milan. Two 50m half ropes would be ideal and some abseil descents will assume you have these. In many cases a single 80m doubled will get you down. A 70m will frequently be too short. 3-4 cams and a single set of wires will be enough for most routes plus many quick draws and trad. draws for the situ. pegs and occasional bolt. If the weather is bad, where else could you go? Val di Mello is a granite valley, long trad. routes (full trad. rack needed) and also some sport and bouldering. Lower altitude and probably better weather than the Dolomites. Some people say it’s a bit like The Valley and why would you come to Europe for a second-class Yosemite? 4-5 hours drive from Venice, a bit closer to Milan. Valle dell' Orco, further west in Italy near the Swiss/French border is another granite crack (mostly) climbing area, again lower altitude and so may have better weather or in a different weather system by virtue of being several hundred miles further west. 4-5 hours drive from Venice. I’ve not been here but people I know who know about such things rate it. There are numerous places in Switzerland, most notably Wendenstock and Ratikon. Dolomites quality mountain scenery with Verdon quality rock. Both are emphatically world class but both pretty adventurous for bolted climbing, 5.11 and up, sometimes a little 5.9R for good measure. You’re in the mountains so the weather may be no better than the Dolomites. Grimsel Pass (long routes, mostly on slabby granite) is a lower altitude, fast drying alternative. These are all 5-6 hours drive from Venice. Ceuse is in prime condition in June. It’s about 6-7 hours driving from Venice, perhaps slower in a campervan, not allowing for stops. The climbing is world-class single pitch sport. Ideally you’d be operating at 5.12 but you could have a good week climbing no harder than 5.11. A 70m rope will be fine for most routes. Verdon will be getting warm but should still be climbable. The climbing and ambience is magnificent, immaculate limestone of much higher quality than the Dolomites. Classic long routes from easy 5.10 to 5.13, the easier tend to be semi-bolted trad., the harder sportingly-bolted sport. There are also shorter sport routes. It’s about 7-8 hours drive from Venice, not so far from Milan. Campervan parking is fine, there are also campsites. Food and scenery are both great, it’s Provence! Ropes and gear as for Dolomites, perhaps more cams for the traditional, easier, crack routes. Have fun!

I was in Dolomites for a couple weeks in September. Had fine weather. Did a few long routes that I would do again. The protection was usually a bunch of pitons, nuts, Tri-cams and often cams. I trust nuts more than cams and I was happier than my partner who is the opposite.

Stick to the classics since you don't have a lot of time and you won't be disappointed.