Small cams - how low do you go?

For small cams, I currently own X4s in 0.5, 0.4, and 0.3. I've noticed that a lot of people carry the smaller sizes (and I've seen a few routes call for them), but I'm having difficulty seeing the point of placing the smaller sizes (Metolius TCU 00, X4 0.1-0.2, C3 000, etc) on lead. For the X4s (set I would be looking to complete), the 0.1 and 0.2 are rated to 5 and 6 kn, respectively, and other brands are fairly comparable in that size. Would you/have you risk whipping on that? If not, why bring them on a lead, free-climbing rack?

youtube.com/watch?v=rkbD73o…

Ted Pinson wrote:but I'm having difficulty seeing the point of placing the smaller sizes (Metolius TCU 00, X4 0.1-0.2, C3 000, etc) on lead.

Sometimes thats all you can get

Fall forces are probably lower than you think. I whipped on a met 0 the other day it works just like all my other cams and im glad. I had. Plus it not bent or any thing still going to use the crap out of it. Havent fallen on the 00 yet but give it enough time and push the grades hard enough its sure to happen.

Ideally I place nuts in the supper small cam sizes brass offsets seam to work best here. but some times its nice to place a small cam maybe back it up with a nut if your really worried about it.

Its usually the rock that breaks not the cam in the really small cam size.

Whipped onto my 00 TCU and mastercam many times, and they have held me every time

In soft Zion sandstone none the less i have whipped on 0, and 00 sized aliens and TCU's with no cam failures.

if you want to climb 5.12 in the desert and lots of other places. you use small cams. there are hard routes in the valley and elsewhere that require small gear and committing moves above it.

i fell about 20ft on a black alien, and a purple C3 on a 12+ at the creek. no big deal. 6KN is a lot of force when there is plenty of rope in the system.

I have whipped on small brass in Zion sandstone too... it works. you can always nest them.

If it's that thin, the climbing is probably pretty insecure and you're gonna take everything you get. As others have said, small cams can hold falls. My yellow zero just seems bomber and its not THAT much bigger than a 00 TCU.

Why wouldn't you use them??? Better than nothing, and they might hold. That's good enough for me. Don't get caught up in the ratings of gear, a crappy low rated piece of gear that might hold is better than no piece of gear at all.

5-6 kN is a lot more kilonewtons than zero kilonewtons. Like, infinitely more, my fancy math training tells me.

I've whipped onto black aliens, red X4's, yellow X4's and RP's... and I'm not dead! .... yet

I have a double set of .1 and .2 Camalots. As others have said, sometimes that is all you get and it is infinitely better than nothing. I carry those for the same reason I carry a set of HB offsets and steel nuts. One often needs a full quiver when on the sharp end.

Allen Sanderson wrote: As others have said, sometimes that is all you get and it is infinitely better than nothing. I carry those for the same reason I carry a set of HP offsets and steel nuts.

Hewlett Packard makes nuts?

I own a Green Wild Country ZERO. The second smallest cam on the market. Only good for 4.5kN but when its the only thing that fits I'm glad I have it!

I took a big whipper on on MasterCam 00 a few months back. Probably 20-25feet. Held nice and solid.

The cable loop was visible deformed afterwards so it must have taken a good 4kN or so. (As I understand all Metolius Cams are proof tested to 50% of loading so it must have been a fair bit more than 2.5kN.) Unfortunately a tiny spring stop was damaged making it unusable. But that doesn't matter the cam did its job. Metolius sent me out a new one without hesitation. They were already my favorite micro cam, but after that experience I like them even more!

If you start taking high factor falls on this tiny gear then you may run into troubles. But high factor falls are rare. The bigger concern is the rock quality, but if you climb on strong rock then they are an excellent asset.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:Why wouldn't you use them??? Better than nothing, and they might hold. That's good enough for me. Don't get caught up in the ratings of gear, a crappy low rated piece of gear that might hold is better than no piece of gear at all.

Exactly. Given a choice, don't place it and run it out in hopes of better pro, or place a wee piece anyway and still climb on for hopes of better pro. No brainer?

Haha, fair enough. Yeah, I agree that 5kn is better than 0 kn, but at the same time...$120 is a lot of money for psychological pro. ;) Good to know they'll usually hold in reasonable trad falls! Thanks.

Ted Pinson wrote:Haha, fair enough. Yeah, I agree that 5kn is better than 0 kn, but at the same time...$120 is a lot of money for psychological pro. ;) Good to know they'll usually hold in reasonable trad falls! Thanks.

So you've never been in a situation where you had to place micro cams to feel safe or run it out? I would've thought you would have answered this yourself already. Your lead head must be stronger then me :)

Never trust a single micro cam if you can help it

Sure they may hold ... But even if we ignore the "ratings", the simple fact is that your placement margin of errors is MUCH less than a larger cam should give one pause

All it takes is a 1-2mm and the cam shifting for it to become an open umbrella placement

Note that except for the brit cams (zero, friends and dmm) none of the cams in the truly micro sizes have rated cam stops .... U get the placement a slight bit off and they can umbrella open quite easily

As to the "rating" ... Get a old stiff rope, a heavier climber/belayer, a grigri and a fall down low on a route and you can easily reach ~5 KN ... Or if yr higher up on a route with bends and friction

Personally id take a well placed micronut over a microcam anyday

When using micro gear back it up if possible

Pics of a broken cam at link below ....

I'm the guy who broke the 00 tcu sun at sand rock. I was waiting to hear a Metolious response before posting. my friend sent an email to Metolious sun night and got a call at the start of business mMonday. they gave us the fed-ex acct. # to overnight them . Jason has been in touch with the president and vice president the last couple days and they took everything very seriously. all cams are currently being pulled from the warehouse and pull tested to half the rated strength this will also happen to all future cams.
I was leading golden flake on sun wall and placed a couple pieces down low and cranked over the start and then ran it out till the top of the flake where I had a poorly placed #4 b.d. (should have taken the time to put it in better) stood up and had a bomber #4 tcu (it caught the fall) stepped back down to rest and plugged a bomber #2 bd between the #4's. I then went up a couple moves and put in the ill fated 00 tcu. I didn't realize the top by the anchors was bomber so I started down climbing to weight the 00, I was less than a foot above when i sat and it blew. I wound up 15-18 feet below with the busted cam at my waist. I forgot to mention that it was a brand new super light tcu and it was the first time it had ever been placed. the trigger had A 05/06 but we were told that the lot # did not matter.

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Metolius Climbing
August 3, 2006

IMPORTANT STRENGTH RATING INFORMATION FOR #00 AND #0 ULTRALIGHT POWER CAMS AND TCUS
We have recently been informed of two incidents of small Ultralight Cam failures.
One incident involved the failure of a #0 TCU during a 25 foot fall while aid climbing on El Cap. It is clear that the force generated in this fall exceeded the rated strength of the unit (5 kN). In the other incident, the leader fell onto a #00 TCU from less than a foot above. The piece failed and the leader fell 15 or more feet, before being stopped by a #4 Metolius cam. In both these incidents the climbers did the right thing by placing solid, full-strength gear immediately below the micro cams. Those pieces arrested their falls and thankfully both parties were uninjured!

Naturally, we took these reports very seriously and immediately began an exhaustive series of tests to verify the integrity of our cams.

Proof testing 100% of finished stock:
We immediately pulled all of our finished stock of #00 and #0 cams out of the warehouse and pull tested each piece to 4.4 kN (1000lbf.) #00 and #0 cams are rated at 5 kN (1100lbf). Normal proof testing would pull to one half a unit’s rated strength. We wanted to up the ante and hence pulled to 1000 lbf. to make sure we were seeing the whole picture. We had no failures during this testing.

We then retested several proof-tested units to confirm they were unaffected by this loading event. Through more destructive testing we proved that the proof testing in no way harmed the integrity of the cams.

Destructive testing:
In the last few days we have tested over 50 units to failure. As well as the standard CE pull test, we have done a series of off-axis pull-testing to confirm the cams’ ultimate strengths. The results of the standard CE test were as follows: No failures were experienced at or below the rated strength. The lowest failure was 1200 lbf. The vast majority failed at 1400-1700 lbf. and the highest failures were 2000lbf. We also pulled units in an off-axis configuration (with the stem aligned 45 degrees or 90 degrees away from the direction of the load.) These are extremely harsh tests, but can represent less-than-ideal, real-world situations. Again, we had no failures at or below rated strength. We also performed a number of tests on solder connections in which we purposely overheated or under heated the joint, added extra solder or did not use enough solder. Once again, even with defective solder joints, there were no failures at or below rated strength.

In addition to the above testing, we have tested over 100 of each size of TCUs and Power Cams in standard batch testing over the last 14 months, none of which have failed at or below rated strength. We have also conducted extensive outdoor drop testing in which units are placed in actual rock. We also test many of our competitor’s cams in exactly the same placements. This head-to-head comparison in a real-world setting was a big factor in our decision to move forward with the Ultralight design.

Our cams also bear the CE certification stamp which independently verifies that we have passed all CE test requirements.

While it is obvious that the rated strength of the unit was exceeded in the first reported incident, the seemingly low load reported in the second incident initially had us perplexed. After inspecting the failed unit and conducting the exhaustive testing detailed above, we have come to the conclusion that a load of greater than 5 kN was generated in the reported fall.

We believe that the unit was loaded out of alignment with its stem, which caused it to fail at a lower load than its potential maximum strength. However, our testing shows that, while an off-axis placement will fail at a lower load than an aligned placement, it will still not fail below the rated strength.

It is critical to understand the limitations of your equipment. It is impossible to make tiny cams as strong as large cams. The same is true for nuts or any other piece of gear. 5 kN is simply not strong enough to withstand the loads that are often generated in a leader fall. However, micro cams and other small pieces can be an important part of a system of protection as long as their limitations are understood and respected. Whenever you are placing small gear, try to place multiple pieces and equalize them. Always make sure you have stronger gear placed below the small gear that will eventually arrest your fall if the small gear fails. Never trust your life to any single gear placement, especially small gear.

If you own Ultralight TCUs or Power Cams and have any concerns about their integrity, we would be happy to inspect and pull test them for you, free of charge. Please call or email if you have questions or need assistance.

Sincerely,

Metolius Climbing
63189 Nels Anderson Rd.
Bend, Oregon 97701 USA

(541) 382-7585
info@metoliusclimbing.com
www.metoliusclimbing.com



coolclimbing.com/rockgearbr…

fair enough and if you are making moves over small gear there is nothing wrong with nesting a couple of them. Ideally you will recognize when the failure of any point of the system will result in catastrophe. hence all that when to use a locking krab in the middle of a lead stuff.

its kinda like when you don't know knots tie lots.

Of course small cams are less than ideal. If you want safe secure placements only stick to climbs that will allow solid placements of larger cams and nuts. Sometimes you take what you can get and are thankful you can get anything in. Do people really think about kN when they climb?? Learning to place solid gear is more important than learning what kN your last piece can hold.

Respfully disagree. If you don't know knots, go learn them! i do agree with the statement about multiple placements and locker at critical points, but as a practitioner of technical rescue, the knot thing is a pet peeve of mine.

I use microcams all the time, but as much as possible in pairs, or paired with micronuts or ballnuts. Equalizing a pair of placements is a myth, but if you can get even a 70-30 load distribution, your 5 kN placement will withstand 7 kN, which is close to the max you can get with good ropes that haven't just held a previous fall. So if you are going to carry microcams at all, I'd say you should carry them in pairs.

However, I think failures will usually be due to the rock/placement characteristics rather than any intrinsic strength of the gear, and can easily be a lot lower than 5 kN. The gear has to be placed within a hair of being overcammed, and the placement can't have any nearby flares that will allow the piece to walk and open up. Micronuts can be more reliable than cams, although vertical placements are often very shallow and so have almost no ability to resist outward loads. A big advantage of micronuts is you can carry a big bunch of them---neither weight nor bulk is an issue---and so make multiple placements close together.

Obviously, the falls you can expect to hold have to be short low fall-factor affairs. Forgetting about the fall-factor part, once a micro-piece is at knee level, you should probably be thinking 50% or more chance of failure.

Although this can't always be arranged, I do my best to keep micro-pro overhead. For this half ropes are a significant advantage, since if the high piece fails, the big loop of slack that is created doesn't add to your fall because it is the other strand doing the catching. (Your belayer has to know what the hell they are doing and not pay out both ropes as you climb towards the high piece. The high-piece strand has to be taken in as the low-piece strand is paid out.)