The Erik Sloan ethics thread

pkeds wrote:Can we call a Christmas truce on this thread for a day? Surely if the Brits and Germans could do it ~100 years ago, surely we can here.

They only managed it once the first year of the war, it wasn't repeated. But everyone has the choice to participate in this conversation or not, writing a post to ask others to stop writing posts seems pretty pointless to me.
(not referring to just you or any one person).

T Roper wrote: signed up an hour ago to say what?

signed up nine years ago to say what? [ Merry Christmas, all ;<) ]

Erik Sloan wrote:Powerdrills? Yawn. Same as Base Jumping, right? No one's doing it I swear. You guys are so silly - nearly everyone putting up routes here(and I'm definitely not putting up routes here) is using power drills.[…]. Woot Woot! E

If climbers want intervention, if they want more regulation, this is precisely how they will bring it down on themselves. If they do not agree with the policy they need to work to change it — not to flout it. That means you, Eric Sloan.

nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/…

Bolting Policy & New Routes

The Rules:
Drilling protection bolts for climbing is permitted in Yosemite as long as it is done by hand. Motorized power drills are prohibited. The National Park Service does not inspect, maintain, or repair bolts and other climbing equipment anywhere in the park.

Beyond this simple rule, there is a strong community bolting ethic in Yosemite. If you plan to bolt a new route or alter an existing one, talk with local climbers who are familiar with Yosemite's route history and traditions before permanently altering the cliff face. No one wants to see the rock damaged by bolts being placed and chopped.

"Gardening" (the name given to removing plant life from cracks) is not allowed in Yosemite. Many climbers remove the occasional bit of grass or leaves to place protection or find a finger-lock, but this is nothing compared to the serious damage done establishing a new area.

New Routes:
The damage caused establishing a new route is far greater than that caused by each subsequent party. If you are considering establishing a new route ask yourself, "Is this route worth the damage it will cause?" "Is it a classic line that others will enjoy climbing, or I am simply interested in putting up my own route?" "What will climbers fifty years from now think of this route or this bolt?" There are thousands of established routes in Yosemite already--maybe try a few more of those before making a new mark on Yosemite's Wilderness.

The Reasons:
Most of the Yosemite's climbing areas are in designated Wilderness, and motorized items, including power drills, are not allowed in these areas. In addition to this Congressional mandate, the park has an interest in limiting the impacts from climbing while enabling climbers to enjoy the park. The resulting rule allows climbers the unusual privilege of permanently altering Yosemite's granite cliffs by adding bolts in the location of their choosing, but inherently limits the number of those bolts by requiring that they be hand drilled.

Healyje wrote: signed up nine years ago to say what? [ Merry Christmas, all ;<) ]

To help you be more PC its actually Happy Holidays Bitches, dont push your religion here Healy.

Just so the haters can hate some more and add to the growing list of complaints, a friend of a friend of someone I know on Supertopo said ES took a dump in the camp 4 bathroom and didnt flush, they also told me that he didnt wash his hands.

Hey saxfiend or Sprague? Why don't whichever of you two is responsible, quit deleting my posts, or engage me directly if you have a problem with them.

Aside from arbitrarily deleting them for no particular reason I can discern, I'm struggling to understand why the hell a guy from Georgia or some yankee is an admin for California section in the first place. I've got my suspicions that it's Liles and not Sprague, but who knows.

Will S wrote:Hey saxfiend or Sprague? Why don't whichever of you two is responsible, quit deleting my posts, or engage me directly if you have a problem with them. Aside from arbitrarily deleting them for no particular reason I can discern, I'm struggling to understand why the hell a guy from Georgia or some yankee is an admin for California section in the first place. I've got my suspicions that it's Liles and not Sprague, but who knows.

As a former admin here Will "s" , you may want to turn the anger down a notch.

Happy Holidays!

Christian, don't sweat it. T Roper makes a lot of unsupportable arguments like that. Looks like he's just trying to monkey-wrench the discussion, not actually make valid points.

Healyje wrote: signed up nine years ago to say what? [ Merry Christmas, all ;<) ]

I didn't think it was possible for Healyje to post something so void of dogma, crustiness, and anger. Now that's something to celebrate. Happy holidays everyone!

T Roper wrote: To help you be more PC its actually Happy Holidays Bitches, dont push your religion here Healy.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying Merry Christmas. Nothing. Did someone convince you to be ashamed of your religion?

Well then...Merry Christmas!!

Happy holidays Y'all!

Thanks for the update HERNDON. I could not find the thread on ST... can you tell me what thread your pic is posted under?

C. Holt wrote:Thanks for the update HERNDON. I could not find the thread on ST... can you tell me what thread your pic is posted under?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2712668&tn=220

Sloan, what's this Yosemite Climber's Ranch you are babbling about?

The chuffing occurring in this thread and over on Supertopo is classic. At least someone went and did something about the BoR anchor; the most amusing bit of all of this is that the ST folks chuffed away for a decade about Ten Days After until a real climber came along and actually climbed the route.

Regardless, chuff on.

Yo Gang!

Wishing everyone a Happy New Year! Go big in Yosemite in 2016!

I've really appreciated this thread. I think it has shown a lot of people in the climbing community how important it is to treat each person with respect, and to acknowledge that right now people are very closely divided about climbing related issues.

Let's make 2016 about channeling this enthusiasm into something productive for the Yosemite climbing community! A great start would be forming of committees within the YCA(Yosemite Climbing Association) to start dealing with climber related issues, from access to fixed anchor equipment.

Of course I can't help but put my own personal goal for the Yosemite community out there: That we have a tangible property to get together and share campfires, stories, gear, beta, stoke, and everything good. The Yosemite Climber's Ranch!

I posted an update to the new Yosemite guidebook thread here:

mountainproject.com/v/new-y…

Woot Woot!
Erik
erik@yosemitebigwall.com

jon vandub wrote:GUIDE BOOKS SHOULD COME FROM EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE. I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD COME FROM CARELESS, UNQUALIFIED ,IGNORANT AND SELFISH PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CLUE.

So you are not talking about Erik Sloan. He certainly is qualified to write Yosemite Guides and already has.

jon vandub wrote:ERIC, if you can't respond like an adult, stay off this thread.

Erik might not make post that you want but he is far from being an internet troll like you and most others

jon vandub wrote:Closely divided??

Yosemite does not have closely divided issues and ethics. Most climbers are visitors and really don't give a shit.

Yosemite will be there tomorrow and there will be climbing.

Erik Sloan wrote:I think it has shown a lot of people in the climbing community how important it is to treat each person with respect, and to acknowledge that right now people are very closely divided about climbing related issues.

Uhhh... It has sure failed to show at least one climber that respect is something that you EARN, not demand. Also important is that it takes time to earn a good reputation, but you can piss it away at any given time by doing stupid things and acting arrogant about it.

mediocre wrote: Alexey had stated that he had not climbed or at least not climbed much here. I was merely saying that it has a good chance of starting more fires if people who climb in YNP once a year start showing up in droves with bolt cutters in their hands. Self policing is necessary, but that sounds more like vigilantism.

Huh? May I ask you to look at his contributions on MP before you post such an idiotic comment? Alexey has done a bunch of FAs in the Valley, and posted numerous beta/topo/photos of routes in the Valley. I found myself using his beta a lot when climbing in the Valley. To say that Alexey not climbing in the Valley much is far from the truth.

K Weber wrote: So you are not talking about Erik Sloan. He certainly is qualified to write Yosemite Guides and already has. Erik might not make post that you want but he is far from being an internet troll like you and most others Yosemite does not have closely divided issues and ethics. Most climbers are visitors and really don't give a shit. Yosemite will be there tomorrow and there will be climbing.

Didn't we already establish that Erik Sloan isn't much of a free climber? No doubt he is an expect aid climber and has published a Valley big wall guidebook. But we are talking about a free climbing guidebook here.

Alexey is in the Valley all the time. He has climbed stacks and stacks of free routes there, at a high standard, including hardman adventure routes most people will never attempt. He's about as local as it gets for someone that doesn't work in the park.