Speed Big Walling as Four
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Hey everyone. Myself and three buddies are hitting Yosemite in June for a whole month with the goal of speed climbing El Cap as four. We'll be doing several easier walls together first to get the four-man system dialed. |
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My honest opinion? This sounds like you are going to create a cluster, probably on a trade route. |
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Speed Climbing + Hauling = WRONG |
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One of the biggest principals of big wall climbing is mitigating clusterfucks, before they escalate. Easy things like facing biners the correct way or keeping fixed lines in good positions are essential to moving quick, and therefore, having fun. We climb to have good wilderness experiences in the mountains, not to perpetually flake six ropes. Split the teams up, bring only two ropes MaX (or one if you are actually speed climbing) then meet back up with your homies at the pizza deck. Whatever you do, wait until you are a seasoned wall climber to go up with a big party. Sure, it's fun, but it can be a hassle, and sometimes unsafe. Unfortunately, the climber who passed away on the nose this spring was part of a non traditional team of three. |
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One of the biggest principals of big wall climbing is mitigating clusterfucks, before they escalate. Easy things like facing biners the correct way or keeping fixed lines in good positions are essential to moving quick, and therefore, having fun. We climb to have good wilderness experiences in the mountains, not to perpetually flake six ropes. Split the teams up, bring only two ropes MaX (or one if you are actually speed climbing) then meet back up with your homies at the pizza deck. Whatever you do, wait until you are a seasoned wall climber to go up with a big party. Sure, it's fun, but it can be a hassle, and sometimes unsafe. Unfortunately, the climber who passed away on the nose this spring was part of a non traditional team of three. |
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Thanks, everyone! I expected some skepticism given the lack of experience, and its certainly justified. That's why we started training many months ahead of time. We go out three times a week and aid/jug up a tree in the park over and over just to get the basic systems right, and will continue doing this for the next seven months. We have a schedule of 8 other walls that we are going to hit (some without bags, some with) before we even attempt to get on El Cap. If those are a cluster, no chance are we getting on some trade route and slowing everyone else down. |
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Alex Wyvill wrote:I think I've also been unclear about one other thing: when I say we are "Speed climbing," I only mean that we are climbing using a system where someone is always leading.When you say the leader is always leading, do you mean that you are planning on simuling and short-fixing? These are advanced techniques that sacrifice some safety for speed, and that trade-off doesn't really make sense to me considering you are bringing two haul bags and a portaledge. I'm guessing that's not what you meant though, just wanted to throw that out there just in case. Alex Wyvill wrote:As to "you don't need a top anchor while jugging," I assume therefore that the dangers of an ascender popping off on a traversing pitch are just very minimal?Obviously you need an anchor while jugging. What you don't necessarily need is a second rope. Ascenders can come off the rope unexpectedly, but you can provide redundancy for the ascender by tying back-up knots every so often, you don't need redundancy for the rope, unless you are concerned about a very low probability rope-cutting or anchor-failure event. Your system is confusing because some of your choices seem to be strongly prioritizing safety over efficiency, and others the opposite. With your level of experience I would recommend focusing on safety first, and efficiency will come naturally as you practice more. Once you are really dialed in on your system, you can start thinking about more advanced techniques to increase your efficiency and speed even more, but as a beginner your greatest efficiency gains will come with getting really dialed in with all the basic techniques, placing solid gear quickly, getting good at rope management, and avoiding clusters in the first place. Regardless, I think the best way for you to find out what will be most efficient for a big wall party of four is to get out there and try things, what works and what doesn't will become painfully obvious very quickly. Just start on some short walls that are not super popular and get things figured out, you'll probably have a lot of fun doing it, and next season you can come back and share all your tips for the best way to bigwall in a team of four! |
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Besides turning into a giant clusterfuck of doom, climbing walls in a party of 4 would absolutely suck because you would spend so much time jugging instead of leading. |
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Em, if you are jugging a haul line, you can't tie backup knots, because there's a bag on the end. That's why there are three lead lines, one for the leader, two for top anchors while people jug. |
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If hte previous pitch is being cleaned then how will you lead? two racks? |
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When I think of speed climbing, I think of (wow, I forget his name when I think of his face) Dean Potter! You can find video footage of him free soloing a flake, I think, to set his partner up for a pendulum. No hauling. My partners always give me a hard time when I want to bring my little stubby haul bag. They always say "Let's climb light and fast!" |
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As for the rack, yes, we have enough gear to lead two (or at least 1.5) pitches at a time |
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I thought this said "Speed Big Wailing"... come to think of it that might be an appropriate name for what you're about to get yourself into. |
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+1 for the idea of two teams of two |
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This is a terrible idea. There is going to be nothing fast about this system even if you manage to pull it off smoothly. This is your first wall; you will have to deal with some clusters. Throw in 5 ropes, 2 huge haulbags, portaledges, and 4 people and you're never going to get it untangled. |
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As I have mentioned, we are climbing eight walls of increasing size in varied areas (Big South Fork, Looking Glass, Linville Gorge, Yosemite) before touching anything on El Cap. Many of the responders here seem to be assuming that we are not going to prepare or practice. This trip is in seven months. If we aren't ready by then, we aren't going to attempt to "clog up a trade route." |
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(Big South Fork, Looking Glass, Linville Gorge) |
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Find some 3 pitch route out of the way and see for yourself how it works out. You can even break up a one pitch route into 3 pitches. Even if everything works out it seems like it would be hard to get 4 people together enough to work the systems out. |
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I buy that. I guess we'll just get on a wall and decide for ourselves if it's a mess waiting to happen. I appreciate the warnings and definitely want to have a good experience, even with an unorthodox plan. Going in with a plan doomed to fail is obviously not going to be a good experience. |
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I don't mean to be mean, but how is this the definition of a "speed" big wall? What would be your strategy for a regular pace one? As soon as you said the word hauling you should throw the word speed out of the equation. |
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Alex Wyvill wrote: if you are jugging a haul line, you can't tie backup knots, because there's a bag on the endaka Suicide Hauling |