Safety Concern with 2 on 1 Bowline

The linked video below demonstrates how to tie a 2-on-1 bowline or a Portuguese bowline to use the rope to tie off two anchor points. I know you could use a variety of knots for this (like the "bunny ears" knot or the BFK) but I felt it could still be useful to know how to tie this knot.

I have a serious concern with using this knot. In my testing, if the second anchor point were to fail or the rope in the second leg were to get cut, the entire knot comes undone in a relatively straight forward way. This is different from the "bunny ears" knot which cinches down on both legs, or the BFK which has two independent halves. Beside the fact that "I'm gonna die", does anyone have any constructive thoughts?

Link to 2-on-1 Bowline video: youtube.com/watch?v=_BbN319…

By the way, here's a super cool way of using the snap technique to type a single bowline: youtube.com/watch?v=nI11MiT…

Thanks!

I avoid bowlines because they can do odd things. I'm a big fan of the bunny ears Fig8. And kudos to you for realizing that the BEF8 DOES NOT come undone if one leg fails. Far too many people IMO worry about that.

Seems like it would work great, but I also prefer "bunny ears".. Much quicker, and easier. . Im sure there definitely could be an application for this.. Such as having to tie off to two separate points w/out lockers..

As I understand it, it can be used anywhere the bunny ear 8 can be, but its much easier to untie after being loaded. I know how to tie it, but I still use the bunny ear I just seems easier to double check the bunny ear.

The "2 on 1 bowline" is just a bowline on a bight, but reeved from the end rather than being tied on a bight. Sometimes this knot is called a "retraced bowline" and sometimes---quite incorrectly---a "double bowline." According to tests done by the DAV, it is as good or better than an ordinary retraced figure eight for tying the climbing rope to the harness.

But it is not an appropriate knot to use for "bunny ears," because it slips a lot if only one of the two "ears" is loaded. See, for example,

http://www.peakinstruction.com/blog/testing-a-method-of-failure-with-a-bowline-on-the-bight-knot/ and

youtu.be/Kpd7RF1ybgI

Thanks everyone. It sounds like my concern was a valid one. The video to which I linked above demonstrates using this knot to set up a rescue rig using two marginal anchors. Apparently marginal anchors is explicitly not the time to use this knot. While it's an interesting knot, I'll just keep using other ones.

Thanks again!

rgold wrote:The "2 on 1 bowline" is just a bowline on a bight, but reeved from the end rather than being tied on a bight. Sometimes this knot is called a "retraced bowline" and sometimes---quite incorrectly---a "double bowline." According to tests done by the DAV, it is as good or better than an ordinary retraced figure eight for tying the climbing rope to the harness.

I've only watch the first video once, but there's something funky going on with the way he ties the "2 on 1 bowline" that is just not quite the same as the retraced bowline. I've been using the retraced bowline as my tie-in knot for 6 years now, When I finish my retraced bowline, my working end is going toward the standing end so I tie my stopper knot around the standing end. He finishes with his working end going away from the standing end and tying his stopper knot around one of the two loops. I need to re-watch the video to figure out what's different.

Edit: So that 2-on-1 bowline shown in the video is not the retraced bowline (bowline on a bight). He only retraced the rabbit's path around the tree, so the second loop is only held by the stopper knot. This is actually a very dangerous knot to use as a "bunny ear" because the second loop can come undone quite easily. A real retraced bowline should trace the path of the rabbit hole and the tree, so the "rabbit path" is the only single loop in the knot, everywhere else you should see double strands (this is how I teach my belayer to check my retraced bowline).

Hmm, you're right. It is worse than a retraced bowline, which already is not good for clipping a pair of anchors.

KISS

just use the bunny ears ...

or use the clove method ...

dont use fancy techniques for the sake of being "cool"

;)

+1 for the snap bowline

I agree with BB. I've never found a good reason to use any "bunny ears" type knot in more than a half-century of climbing. Clove hitches do the job just as well and make it much easier to adjust things.

rgold wrote:I agree with BB. I've never found a good reason to use any "bunny ears" type knot in more than a half-century of climbing. Clove hitches do the job just as well and make it much easier to adjust things.

+1000

(Though I don't have half a century of climbing experience.)

Bunny ears just seem an excuse to use a funky cool looking knot. Clove hitches are fast and flexible.