Toproping through Rap Rings - Gunks

Maybe they both paid for day passes and figured that was what their 34 dollars was going towards.

Medic741 wrote:Wait till top roping climbers on the ground, thread your rope over theirs and rap. Dick move but they probably won't do this again.

Pulling your rope across theirs inside the rap ring can (will?) damage their rope. Correct me if I'm wrong but the friction there could wear right through their sheath. May be annoyed with them but hopefully not THAT annoyed.

I don't think Dana was disagreeing with the initial post or blaming the victim. He was suggesting solutions. Tone can be so easily misunderstood on the internet.

Anyway I agree the behavior described in the OP is inappropriate and rude.

And yes I have seen guides do it. Though when I have come across examples of guides doing it they have been sheepish and apologetic and it seemed to me they were trying to be quick about things and gambled that no one else would come along before they pulled the rope.

SethG wrote:I don't think Dana was disagreeing with the initial post or blaming the victim. He was suggesting solutions. Tone can be so easily misunderstood on the internet. Anyway I agree the behavior described in the OP is inappropriate and rude. And yes I have seen guides do it. Though when I have come across examples of guides doing it they have been sheepish and apologetic and it seemed to me they were trying to be quick about things and gambled that no one else would come along before they pulled the rope.

i wonder if the guides are the ones replacing fixed gear in the Preserve. I've heard different guides from different areas say that since they maintain rap anchors so they can TR through them. Speeds up the client's day.

I think I've seen this guy at a Connecticut Gym. I'll make sure to direct him to this thread if I see him again.

TRing directly thru rap rings is bad. It puts unnecessary wear on them. If he had tied up the only good rappel route that everyone decided is best/most common to use, and there was another way to make an anchor there, then I agree entirely. If there were multiple other good ways down and the guy set up his own anchor off of the rap rings (not putting wear on them), then I wouldn't mind so much.

Schalk wrote: Really? So I had to climb to the top of the cliff and rap off Madama G's because of some idiot's bad manners? And how was I supposed to rap off the tree in front of me when that is the rap anchor they were toproping through? Leave gear? Be an even bigger asshole that our toproping buddy and throw the rope around the tree?

Amazingly enough people HAVE climbed to the top. Even more amazing is that they WALKED off (not rapped) AND got back to the base before the rapping parties. Weird I know.

john2.71 wrote: You were only stuck if you wanted to be. You had numerous realistic, safe options on the table. Yes, someone else was at the crag at the same time you were. It's not much different than if you were in line waiting to rappel. You had so many options available, yet you chose to create a conflict then post his picture online when things didn't go your way. He TR'd through rings; You post his photo to publicly shame him. And you're accusing him of dickish moves, bad manners, being an idiot and an a-hole?

The issue here isn't just the bad behavior- it's exhibiting the bad behavior, and then defending one's self as if one is doing the right thing.

:)

There's never a good time or reason to TR through rap rings at the Gunks.

Bill Kirby wrote: i wonder if the guides are the ones replacing fixed gear in the Preserve. I've heard different guides from different areas say that since they maintain rap anchors so they can TR through them. Speeds up the client's day.

Interesting point. I could see the logic there. Only trouble is, if you do care about being a bad example to other possible newbies watching, there is that.

christopher adams wrote: The issue here isn't just the bad behavior- it's exhibiting the bad behavior, and then defending one's self as if one is doing the right thing. :)

I wonder how much of the defensiveness has to do with the tone of the interaction. I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but I think most people are receptive to advice if it's given in nice and constructive manner, with rationales clearly articulated. From the other post about the offender setting up an anchor using his own draws above Madame G (albeit improperly), it seems that the offender is at least receptive to toproping using his own gear even if he's not aware of every necessary consideration. I would imagine that a friendly conversation would be more productive than posting pictures on MP (although it is a nice picture!).

Bill Kirby,

The Gunks Climbers Coalition has been installing new fixed gear and replacing some old manky gear.

Partial new bolt listing

Jim

john l. wrote: I wonder how much of the defensiveness has to do with the tone of the interaction. I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but I think most people are receptive to advice if it's given in nice and constructive manner, with rationales clearly articulated. From the other post about the offender setting up an anchor using his own draws above Madame G (albeit improperly), it seems that the offender is at least receptive to toproping using his own gear even if he's not aware of every necessary consideration. I would imagine that a friendly conversation would be more productive than posting pictures on MP (although it is a nice picture!).

Agreed...I was the one who mentioned the guy on the Madam G rap. When I got down I asked (nicely) who set up the top rope, to let them know there was an safer way, and a way to do it to not tie up the station. The guy in the green shirt said it was not him, and started to coil the rope. But with a few pieces of gear on and knowing how to coil a rope and the other people walking around clueless looking (may not have been) I would bet it was him who put up the rope.
But yeah no biggie, but if someone would listen they would learn, versus being defensive or in denial.

I am the climber that Schalk encountered. Amazingly, there is another side to the story.

After climbing Delusions of Grandeur I traversed the ledge to rap Hyjack's. I found Schalk climbing up and we engaged in a friendly conversation regarding my route. Nice guy. He had followed his partner's lead cedar box up to the tree rap station where she had made an anchor slinging the tree. I can't recall if he was still climbing up or at the anchor proper. Regardless, he was engaging in a conversation with his partner whether or not to take another lap on cedar's. Apparently, they decided no.

In any case, I had already treaded the rap and was heading down when at the bottom I realized the rope fell directly over HH. As an afterthought, I considered a quick run up Hyjack's. No longer than the time it took to pull the rope to the sharp end and stop, I heard Schalk asking "What are you doing?" I replied that I thought I'd take a lap on HH.

Schalk says that he "hurt the toproper's feelings when he pointed out... blah blah blah" when he really means he lost control of his senses and started yelling down with "What a dick-head move" several times and some other rhetoric about the ethics of top roping. Despite no one, not me nor my partner, taking one move on the rock as a TR, he was offered to rap our rope... which he accepted mind you, and incredibly he continued his rant throughout his descent. As it turns out, I have to believe that he got to the ground faster than had I pulled my rope completely and then he treaded his own and then rapped. He waited for no top roping. There was no one top roping when he got to the anchor, no one top roping when he wanted to rap, no one top roping!?!?!

Look. I as much as anyone can appreciate a clean descent once I get to an anchor. But ETIQUETTE is more than rapping a route and then considering to top rope the route which I had not done!?!?! Etiquette includes not using bellicose language at the first opportunity, especially after just engaging in friendly conversation!!

Anyway, I do appreciate the fact that I was able to google "gunks top roper" and the first, and I mean the very first entry is me!! I made it!! A google top pick. Thank you Schalk!

Beer on me at Baucus this Sat bro!

Dana, good to see that you did not buy into the BS.

The others that did, your bad.

Oops... I meant you need to google "top roper gunks".

Really... it come up first! Try it!

DEF wrote: Pulling your rope across theirs inside the rap ring can (will?) damage their rope. Correct me if I'm wrong but the friction there could wear right through their sheath. May be annoyed with them but hopefully not THAT annoyed.

You've never used a reverso in guide mode.

aka auto block mode

There's always another side to the story. Thanks for writing in LandsEnd, and keeping it civil.

Paul Hutton wrote: You've never used a reverso in guide mode.

Reversos do not run one MOVING rope against a STATIONARY rope. Nor does a Munter hitch. So there's no problem.

DEF is correct - Running a rope through a rap link while another rope sits there (the suggestion in this thread) is a different beast entirely, and it CAN (will...HAS) destroy a rope. It was less than a year ago that an inexperienced climber-in-a-hurry did exactly that at the Gunks and damaged the rope of a certain nationally-significant guide. The newb ended up having to buy the guy a new rope.

So the other side of the story is the gentleman in question said he was going to top rope Hylek's Horror through the rap rings? The OP replied with some crazy talk? Sounds like the OP was right but went too far with the lecture. Well that sucks!

Paul Hutton wrote: You've never used a reverso in guide mode.

I like when Paul Hutton pretends to know about climbing.