The Erik Sloan ethics thread

T Roper wrote:I'm just a spectator to this debacle...

No, you are an active participant in trying to misconstrue numerous peoples arguments in an attempt to stifle dialogue. That is literally your only contribution to this conversation.

Do you actually have something to add to the concersation? If so, please do that. Otherwise, shut up and let the dead horse die already. Thanks :)

Mike Watson wrote: Do you support retrobolting routes in general?

Passing mid pitch anchors has never been a big deal to me.

JNE wrote: Otherwise, shut up and let the dead horse die already. Thanks :)

yeah, Xocomil was right.

Passing mid pitch anchors has never been a big deal to me.

Then go ahead and buy his book. I personally don't condone Eriks actions, especially the way he goes about them, so I won't buy his book. Why is this such a big deal to you? Just getting trolled?

T Roper wrote: Yosemite is a wild place thats for sure, the lines of cars and tourist buses, paved trails, lodges, fast food, ATMs and trash really make it that way.

You do realize that Yosemite is more than just the valley, right?

T Roper wrote: Passing mid pitch anchors has never been a big deal to me.

Good to know but not close to what I asked.

JNE wrote:Poisoning the well, personal attacks... you argue like a child. 111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!REFLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111 I thoroughly posit that you are the one guilty of these things, so, I know you are but what am I? Lol. In all seriousness though, I genuinely feel it is a bad thing to dumb down areas for the masses for the sole purpose of allowing more climbers into an already over-run environment. I think a better solution would be to develop and open some of the lesser known areas in the region. If the retrobolting in this case was more accepted, it would not be getting done in a sketchy way like it is. Our wild places need to be treated with more respect than what is currently happening, and we need to welcome people who are willing to interact with respect and in a respectful manner. Feel free to mischaracterize and attack this perspective all you want, unfortunately for you, it won't make it illegitimate.

The perspective is not illegitimate, your methods were in question. This post was much better, thank you.

If ES were to admit to making a mistake on BOR, and a handful of other unpopular retro bolts, and the tree limbing, would he be forgiven and allowed to move on?

Just curious, because the people defending do so due to the fact that out of the countless number of new bolts he's put in, there have been a couple mistakes, and it's OK to make mistakes. And I can agree with this argument. But the problem is, he personally has not called these mistakes.

Jim Turner wrote:If ES were to admit to making a mistake on BOR, and a handful of other unpopular retro bolts, and the tree limbing, would he be forgiven and allowed to move on? Just curious, because the people defending do so due to the fact that out of the countless number of new bolts he's put in, there have been a couple mistakes, and it's OK to make mistakes. And I can agree with this argument. But the problem is, he personally has not called these mistakes.

I don't think it would matter. To many people that don't think their shit stinks are out for blood.

Tim Lutz wrote:The interweb beatings shall continue until the ethics are improved! This is a proud Murican climbing 'community' TRADition. Supertopo makes this thread look like a greeting card.

for once I actually agree with you on something.

The 3 year old climber side of me wonders how these ethics debates get so crazy when ethics overall seem like a very simple and straight forward concept. Follow local ideals. don't dumb down climbs to your level/ if you can't climb it, bail off; don't lower off rap rings/fixed gear, leave no trace, etc.

The Detroit upbringing part of me wonders why no Camp 4 hardman hasn't called this guy out and gone from there. If Bachar can get decked for enforcing local ethics, why can't this guy for so purposely and arrogantly side stepping local ethics. Obviously last resort, but it's the only way some people learn. If he thinks he is "the Valley bolter", not accountable to anyone, it may be inevitable.

Norse Force wrote:The 3 year old climber side of me wonders how these ethics debates get so crazy when ethics overall seem like a very simple and straight forward concept. Follow local ideals. don't dumb down climbs to your level/ if you can't climb it, bail off; don't lower off rap rings/fixed gear, leave no trace, etc. The Detroit upbringing part of me wonders why no Camp 4 hardman hasn't called this guy out and gone from there. If Bachar can get decked for enforcing local ethics, why can't this guy for so purposely and arrogantly side stepping local ethics. Obviously last resort, but it's the only way some people learn. If he thinks he is "the Valley bolter", not accountable to anyone, it may be inevitable.

Don't be a jack ass, call for violence, and vigilantism. America, climbing, Yosemite don't need that.

Two wrongs do not make a right so STFU.

K Weber wrote: Don't be a jack ass, call for violence, and vigilantism. America, climbing, Yosemite don't need that. Two wrongs do not make a right so STFU.

Not a call by me for anything. Just curious if any one has called him out about it other than from a keyboard. Sometimes people need to be knocked down a peg or two. You're from Boulder, you should know all about that.

Edit: Too many post climb beers clouded my judgement into posting here when I shouldn't have tonight. I am not a Yos climber and shouldn't have added my two cents. Just hoping this rogue bolters ethics become aligned with the Valley locals sooner than later. Cheers.

K Weber wrote: Two wrongs do not make a right so STFU.

Irony on the net is always instant!

Seem to me like the Valley "Hardmen" on supertopo defended him in some cases (i couldn't keep track off all 200 forum topics.

Russ Walling wrote: ^^^^ THIS X 1000

Russ,

You have been a respected man by many in the community. What is your thought?

Russ Walling wrote: I only get one?? His actions are a travesty.

Just one Russ!

Russ is light

Adam Burch wrote:Russ is light

Not the last time I saw him.

Out of curiosity, were bolts added to el cap aid routes by free climbers to facilitate the freeing of said routes?