New Yosemite Free Climbs Select Guidebook Almost Done - Call for Photos!

eli poss wrote: Climbs are retrobolted when the local community agrees that the FA party didn't do the best job. Retrobolting is okay in this case because there is a consensus among the community that actually uses the rock. This is not that case because the local consensus is NOT in favor of retrobolting.

Good post. When the consensus is split, DON'T ADD THE BOLT. Even if you have ONE adamant climber who says "PLEASE DON'T ADD THE BOLT", then don't add it. Not a valley local, and would trust them to iron this out. Erik Sloan is a good guy, but ERIK, STOP ADDING ANY BOLTS ANYWHERE. Please.

That said, love to see both Erics guidebook and Clint and Eds et all. My Reid book is lookin' poorly. ES does good topos. Clint does very great, near flawless work as well. Any idea when Clint/Eds will be out?

Healyje wrote: Or simply refrain from comfort retrobolting regardless of the 'consensus' because the next generation that comes along might not be such pussies.

Haha. Nice point and some of Erics newly added bolts are certainly in the comfort category. ERIC, PLEASE CEASE WITH THE EXTRA BOLT WORK. Post up that you now agree and folks will get off your case.

HI Gang,

Thanks for the comments. I look forward to having more time to talk ethics with you all in the future. Till then, back to talking about this new guidebook:

Good question about how me, a professed 5.9/10a climber, is coming out with a book with all the latest info?

My new Yosemitebigwall.com Yosemite Free Climbs Select book is an amazing collaboration within the climbing community. At the top, Tommy Caldwell spent hours with me going over every single pitch on all of the free routes that he has climbed on El Cap, and dialing the topos in. Alex Honnold has done the same for basically every route 5.11 - 5.13. Seriously, the amount of climbing Alex Honnold in Yosemite is mindblowing. Ask him about a route, chances are he has done it. Dozens of other motivated, 5.9 - 5.11 local climbers, have filled in the gaps on this guide.

But to be clear - I'm taking the opposite approach as Don Reid, Ed Hartouni, Clint Cummins, and Eric Gabel - I'm putting out in inexpensive guide, in app form first, and am asking the community to help with any final corrections/additions/edits.

Climbers have not just given me tons of insights/edits about the routes they love, they've also donated tons of top-notch photos to the book.

It's too bad that the current free climbing guidebook authors do not feel a commitment to their work, or to the Yosemite climbing community. I hope we can have a good discussion one day about how the climbing guides here got so messed up.

Keep the feedback/photos comin! Woot Woot!
Erik
Yosemitebigwall.com

Erik Sloan wrote:HI Gang, Thanks for the comments. I look forward to having more time to talk ethics with you all in the future. Till then, back to talking about this new guidebook: Good question about how me, a professed 5.9/10a climber, is coming out with a book with all the latest info? My new Yosemitebigwall.com Yosemite Free Climbs Select book is an amazing collaboration within the climbing community. At the top, Tommy Caldwell spent hours with me going over every single pitch on all of the free routes that he has climbed on El Cap, and dialing the topos in. Alex Honnold has done the same for basically every route 5.11 - 5.13. Seriously, the amount of climbing Alex Honnold in Yosemite is mindblowing. Ask him about a route, chances are he has done it. Dozens of other motivated, 5.9 - 5.11 local climbers, have filled in the gaps on this guide. But to be clear - I'm taking the opposite approach as Don Reid, Ed Hartouni, Clint Cummins, and Eric Gabel - I'm putting out in inexpensive guide, in app form first, and am asking the community to help with any final corrections/additions/edits. Climbers have not just given me tons of insights/edits about the routes they love, they've also donated tons of top-notch photos to the book. It's too bad that the current free climbing guidebook authors do not feel a commitment to their work, or to the Yosemite climbing community. I hope we can have a good discussion one day about how the climbing guides here got so messed up. Keep the feedback/photos comin! Woot Woot! Erik Yosemitebigwall.com

Erik,

If you have "time" to post this lengthy post, you have time to write a paragragh about the firestorm. A simple, "Yes, I have retrobolted X number of climbs," or "I don't do that" or "I used to, but I don't anymore."

Seems like you are completely avoiding addressing this issue. The future is now!

Frank

Erik Sloan wrote: I look forward to having more time to talk ethics with you all in the future.

Like Ted Bundy looked forward to talking to the cops you do...

You do all understand Erik's endgame, right?
I imagine that he is hoping that once the book is published, if well adopted, then his retrobolts are all 'the new normal.' He'll be taking the voice of the historian over.
A better endgame is to them go remove them all so that his guidebook is thereafter gets a reputation for being inaccurate... and not worth buying. Let him sit on the pile of paper, or at least profit less from it.

But bolt wars suck. So it's probably time to go ahead and turn him in to the park if he trims 6" diameter branches off of trees again, or starts a fire at the base of El Cap or quarter dome...

And probably time to write to any potential publisher or advertiser about this book and have them address the matter with him.
I can obviously start with Falcon, Fixed Pin, and Sharp End, though he may be self publishing, as it seems probable.

Barring a response to me, I'll go ahead and draft a letter to the companies who might otherwise be solicited for add space in such a book. Potential advertisers like Sportiva, Trango, 5.10, BD, Petzel, etc...
Time to make sure that they understand the potential problems with the ethics of the author and that he has decided not to address the ethics in question other than to publicly post that he insists that his modifications stay and that he has threatened a bolt war if they are removed.

If you are a valley local and want to work on this, PM me.

Since Tommy Caldwell and Alex Honnold are professionals making a living getting paid for this type of thing, I really doubt they want Erik selling his book with their names like he is doing. I would hope they would also see Erik is trying to link their "endorsement" of his book with an implied approval of what he is doing in Yosemite.

FrankPS wrote:Seems like you are completely avoiding addressing this issue. The future is now!

I don't know the guy, but from reading the various threads this has come up on (over many years) that is clearly his approach. It doesn't matter how well-reasoned an argument or how clever a quip anyone comes up with, he is going to keep doing what he wants. Nobody posting on any of these forums is going to change his mind.

Pretty textbook passive aggressive behavior.

Erik Sloan wrote:HI Gang, Thanks for the comments. I look forward to having more time to talk ethics with you all in the future. Till then, back to talking about this new guidebook:

Or, in other words...

Erik Sloan wrote:Until then, let's get back to talking about me..

Funny, I thought we were. He's clearly utterly immune and has no idea just how badly this is coming across. Kind of way past the 'benefit of the doubt' or 'unfounded hearsay' argument at this point for anyone who isn't in abject denial or simply a retro-booster.

Erik Sloan wrote:I hope we can have a good discussion one day about how the climbing guides here got so messed up.

Until then we're having a good discussion about how a climbing guide author here got so messed up and what can be done about it.

Healyje wrote: Or, in other words... Funny, I thought we were. He's clearly utterly immune and has no idea just how badly this is coming across. Kind of way past the 'benefit of the doubt' or 'unfounded hearsay' argument at this point for anyone who isn't in abject denial or simply a retro-booster. Until then we're having a good discussion about how a climbing guide author here got so messed up and what can be done about it.

""Abject denial or simply a retro-booster.""

Not really. ES seems to be using the classic technique of "Don't Feed the Trolls"

Erik has been asked point blank about
1. ASCA no longer supporting him
2. Adding bolts mid pitch
3. Dumbing down climbs to his height and skill level
4. Adding more bolts OR adding bolts to avoid crux pitches (GSR)

He has also stated 2x at least that he would LOVE to discuss ethics in a separate thread which has been started. Of which to date he has not even replied. Now he does have on his site a page regarding ethics which is quite funny really if you want a good laugh.

But Erik continues to avoid the real issue. His behavior is truly that of a narcissist

Erik has also stated that one could post comments on Erik's own
web site. The only hitch is that he will not post critical comments
about his methods, only positive comments.
BP

Hi Gang,

Was just making the Knobby Wall topo and saw this on MP:

"I did the FA with bolts after many top rope and free solo ascents.
The reason for the vandalized bolts? John Bachar, Ron Skelton, Mark Tuttle, Kurt Smith, Dave Shultz.....yes all of them....chopped the bolts on this climb 4 times in three months.
Cowards and liars, all of them." - Dimitri Barton, 2014

The ethics discussion might need to be longer than you think, haha. All those bolts are back on the Knobby Wall, Cookie Monster, heck no one has found out who put up that sport pitch at Middle Cathedral that added an anchor in the middle of Paradise Lost!

We'll talk about all this stuff another time. Woot Woot! E

Erik Sloan wrote:The ethics discussion might need to be longer than you think, haha.

... I think it needs to be longer than YOU think.

Erik Sloan wrote:Hi Gang, Was just making the Knobby Wall topo and saw this on MP: "I did the FA with bolts after many top rope and free solo ascents. The reason for the vandalized bolts? John Bachar, Ron Skelton, Mark Tuttle, Kurt Smith, Dave Shultz.....yes all of them....chopped the bolts on this climb 4 times in three months. Cowards and liars, all of them." - Dimitri Barton, 2014 The ethics discussion might need to be longer than you think, haha. All those bolts are back on the Knobby Wall, Cookie Monster, heck no one has found out who put up that sport pitch at Middle Cathedral that added an anchor in the middle of Paradise Lost! We'll talk about all this stuff another time. Woot Woot! E

How do you do an FA on bolts after a a free solo....wasn't the free solo the FA?

Erik Sloan wrote:Hi Gang, Was just making the Knobby Wall topo and saw this on MP: "I did the FA with bolts after many top rope and free solo ascents. The reason for the vandalized bolts? John Bachar, Ron Skelton, Mark Tuttle, Kurt Smith, Dave Shultz.....yes all of them....chopped the bolts on this climb 4 times in three months. Cowards and liars, all of them." - Dimitri Barton, 2014 The ethics discussion might need to be longer than you think, haha. All those bolts are back on the Knobby Wall, Cookie Monster, heck no one has found out who put up that sport pitch at Middle Cathedral that added an anchor in the middle of Paradise Lost! We'll talk about all this stuff another time. Woot Woot! E

Have you ever considered that your unbridled enthusiasm in the face of people with legitimate concerns makes you look like an asshole and not the other way around?

David Barbour wrote: Have you ever considered that your unbridled enthusiasm in the face of people with legitimate concerns makes you look like an asshole and not the other way around?

A true narcissist would not care until something bad came of it for them.
Just chop his retros.

Erik Sloan wrote: "I did the FA with bolts after many top rope and free solo ascents. The reason for the vandalized bolts? John Bachar, Ron Skelton, Mark Tuttle, Kurt Smith, Dave Shultz.....yes all of them....chopped the bolts on this climb 4 times in three months. Cowards and liars, all of them." - Dimitri Barton, 2014

Clearly more of the 'legit' crew that would be endorsing Eric's tactics and book.

So Erik Sloan

Did you add the bolts to commitment and munginella?

I'm going to completely agree with the "unbridled enthusiasm making Eric look like an asshole" comment. I was up for giving him the benefit of doubt earlier in the thread. I didn't want to see him bashed around by accusations without merit. From his responses however, I've seen him engaging in passive aggressive behavior and false enthusiasm that he throws in the face of legitimate concerns of his actions. It is apparent to me that he has ABSOLUTLY NO INTENTION of engaging in any ethics discussion and it baiting all the concerned mp users with false hope that he will do so in the future. Also his comments such as "I love you guys" directly after people are asking him to step up and talk about his actions and his constant enthusiasm and his stupid ass Woot Woot at the end of his comments that are obviously directed at ignoring all concerns have rubbed me the wrong way over and over. Basically I was on his side in the beginning and now I'd kinda like to push him down a hill. The tactics that's he's using on this forum, if used in a public setting such as a bar or at a climbing crag would defiantly get him punched in the face. At first I thought his social skills were low or he was so self absorbed that he didn't understand how he was slighting everyone with his responses but at this point I'm leaning towards the much more possible explanation which is that he's taunting us.

Erik Sloan wrote:John Bachar, Ron Skelton, Mark Tuttle, Kurt Smith, Dave Shultz.....yes all of them....chopped the bolts on this climb 4 times in three months.

When a list of luminaries like that - and especially Kurt Smith, of all people - chops bolts, it's a good indicator they are unwelcome and only a complete nutjob would go back and bolt it yet again. Hopefully it will be chopped again soon enough.