new

Will- this is exactly why I quit climbing and now I'm a professional Dave and Busters arcade player. I suggest you try it. I haven't once seen a top rope set up on cruisin' U.S.A. .... Sometimes I have to ask the noobs to stop toprope gangbanging Pacman and Asteroids cause they're like super classic 5.8 climbs errr.... Arcade games. Noobs have no right to gangbang the classic arcade games. It's my fucking high score brah.

hey will: get over yourself and move on to a crag more suited to your talents. you're clearly too hard to be around people climbing such lowly grades anyway.

or are you?

Rob- I've been top dogging 5.10 since 93. I really think it's only 5.9 though. You mistake my stoke for rage. I suppose we should all just free solo naked eh? Rob, on a serious note I've been looking for a naked acro yoga partner...

When all this was happening, did you stand around, say and do nothing aside from plan out your sweet MP rant where you act superior to people who are probably new to the sport?

Instead of complaining about people's lack of knowledge and "proper" crag etiquette, be a mentor.

Hating on people for being excited about climbing and using the wrong terminology makes you sound like the worst kind of climber. "The best climber is the one having the most fun" not the one who chides other people from behind their monitor.

Plenty of people top rope outside, some climbers aren't ready to lead, they may never be, but they have just as might of a right to be at the cliff. You say to do your top roping in the gym, I haven't visited an area that more closely resembles a gym than the Red, maybe you need a change of scenery along with a change of attitude.

It's weird to make fun of people who are leading sport routes on trad gear. That's actually pretty bad-ass and is definitely not a noob behavior.

Your second paragraph talks about trad gear left in place. I thought maybe it was the same route as the sport climb. Different route I guess?

Still, anyone using trad gear and leading is definitely not a gym/noob loser. We need not decry bold and applaudable ground up trad ascent tries, whether or not they were projecting or leaving gear pre-placed, etc.

Reeding cahmpreehenshun.

Midwest Will wrote: are you F'N kidding!! i dont climb at any of the mentioned areas .. my f'n head would explode.

Oh ha ha so you climb at Global Village instead? Yeaaaaah because no one ever goes there, you obviously are a noob yourself and have no idea what youre talking about... You need to suck it up and move their rope/educate them or make better crag choices. Its really not a big deal considering there are like ten million routes at the red.

matt c. wrote: Loose

Is the opposite of tight.

I agree this is in somewhat poor form, but it seems like the whole thing would be a non-issue if you had talked to them - they probably would have said "sorry, we'll clean that up for you", and then you could have climbed the route. The grade of the route, or whether they were happy to have led at that level seems totally irrelevant to the discussion.

I don't know why you all are flaming Midwest will. I think the grade references were to enforce they were probably newbies, not bragging about his own skills. I do agree that the problem is best addressed at the time of incident, like when a dog pees on the floor. If you don't address at time of action then the dog (newb climbers) will not be able to learn why their actions where inappropriate. IF I were you and they were 20 feet away just pull the damn rope! Everyone else needs to calm down. This is very poor form to leave TR hanging unattended. While the OP could have maybe done things differently the kids hanging top ropes and leaving gear in a route are the real villains.

Midwest Will wrote: ...seriously WTF are you thinking ? ...it seems like the new generation needs trophies.. ...Please stop treating outdoor climbing like a gym .. pull your ropes .. pick up your gear.. be humble and most of all...

...be considerate?

I think the next time this happens you should call their parents, for they are the ones that set their child up for such inconsiderate actions.

This all boils down to people being just plain old discourteous. It is everywhere now, but you have a few options. You can be discourteous back. You could be the "bigger man". My personal favorite is to make them look foolish in their actions - it usually gets the point across with a lesson learned.

You don't have to be mean or vindictive about it. Get creative and have fun with a crappy situation.

My two cents.

reboot wrote: Why are you all worked up if it's only a 5.8 then? There are plenty of world class 5.13s & 5.14s at the Red. Fishing for more keyboard warriors to support your view over all the climbing websites ain't gonna change a thing.

This. Grow up and quit bitching.

Midwest Will wrote:and again .. no one gives a crap about your 5.8 lead ..

And after seeing your first quote, well why do you seem to care so much about a 5.8 lead then?

Collin Holt wrote:the kids hanging top ropes and leaving gear in a route are the real villains.

hahahahahah Fucking top rope villains! Leaving dem ropes up! Always stealing my left hand sock at night!

Midwest Will wrote: example ?

- Well, in the situation you describe I would not have said anything, but maybe pull the gear while leading. Once back on the ground with the gear I might have played stupid and told the person that I just posted on MP that I bootied all this gear but feel bad about just taking it, so instead my MP post is lost and found, or you are selling it. Explain the ethics when confronted.

- Tell them that there was a climber at the parking lot asking you to grab his gear for him because he left it at the route. A total lie, but... it may make that person go and get it just for the fact they don't want someone taking their gear on someone elses request. See how fast they take care of pulling their gear.

- You could always pull the gear on lead and then leave it at the top suggesting it was too much to bring back down right now and you plan on coming back for it. Bet they don't leave the gear up anymore.

Most of these will be situational and you may have to be creative with use of personal attributes seen from the group or person.

What if this happens at the gym? There are people who will lead a climb, come down, then go off to a different climb without pulling their rope. Should you just do another route... or pull their rope, which seems to really hurt their feelings?