Ground Up - A Vermont Route Development Video

vimeo.com/145324762

New video about climbing route development in Vermont's Smuggler's Notch. Check it.

I don't understand the 5:15ish section where he is drilling without putting some pro in. If the rock is so bad that he doesn't want to put pro in I don't think I would want to drill a bolt on what appears to be rock that is part of the block.

That fall almost looks scripted to me and fake.

Pretty cool video...... Kudos for the project. Seems like a pretty crappy cliff band, though. All kinds of growth, choss, and nothing too worthwhile. Isn't this more of an ice climbing place?

This video is sick! Best I've seen in a long time. It's exciting to see videos like this that captures the richness of climbing, even if they ate too many donuts.

I dig it! Cool vid, thanks for posting.

Looks like a really good place to Rap Bolt and Clean......

IMHO.... when its choss, rap down first and see just what is left after you pull off all the big wicked stuff.

Cool video, well done. Falling with a drill in tow, yikes. Don't like to think of what would happen if that went the wrong way, ha.

I climb up here in VT for the time being; these fellas put a lot into the climbing community and development out here. Nice to see some media about them and their style.

Love it!

Remember kids, if you use a hook or rap-clean, that's an asterisk!

Is this real? .... Like.... Really real?

I loved when he threw a draw over his drill bit. BOMBER!!! Awesome video!

ViperScale wrote:That fall almost looks scripted to me and fake.

When you are that pumped you do anything to stay off the ground. I can promise you that the fall is not scripted or fake.

"Remember kids, if you use a hook or rap-clean, that's an asterisk!"

Not by my book, at least regarding the hooking. Rap cleaning does change the fundamental style of the ascent, and so does deserve the asterisk. But using a hook doesn't change much, except it means the pitch was not onsighted. So long as there is a clean redpoint, I dont think it matters. If you think hooking deserves an asterisk, then so does taking a single fall, resting on a bolt or piece, or using the drill for a break as seen in the vid.
IMO the important differentiation is the 'ground-up' vs 'top-down' distinction. But we all get to draw the line where we see fit.

Guy Keesee wrote:Looks like a really good place to Rap Bolt and Clean...... IMHO.... when its choss, rap down first and see just what is left after you pull off all the big wicked stuff.

Smuggs isn't exactly the place you can just walk around to the top of.

Proud to have contributed to route development in Vermont, be it small. Awesome to see Travis and Seth getting some recognition, these guys have truly helped to define climbing in Vermont.

""Smuggs isn't exactly the place you can just walk around to the top of.""

Understand, 100%. I have a place thats under development, the scariest climbing is the initial way to get to the top.... 5.8 death fest.

And almost no climbs today, unless 5.7 or so get done "onsite"... with drilling and cleaning needed there is no way it gets done free. But you can bet that once all the heavy lifting is completed, we fight each other to have the first crack at IT.

I think the days of climbs having an asterisk because it was done on rap or aid is pretty outdated.... IMHO an asterisk is needed when a climb was never freeded by the FA team....

I agree with Guy. The asterisk is outdated....
But I think its important to note whether a trad route was done GU or TD. Sometimes today, routes are added in traditional zones (where most or all of the lines were done GU) but they are top roped and cleaned prior to the lead. Claiming these routes as simply "trad" obscures the history of route development in that area, and is not totally honest.

DRusso wrote: When you are that pumped you do anything to stay off the ground. I can promise you that the fall is not scripted or fake.

No the point is he is standing next at a crack that looks like it would take gear, in the later part of the video he shows he has cams with him, yet he doesn't have a cam in the wall while drilling...

ViperScale wrote: No the point is he is standing next at a crack that looks like it would take gear, in the later part of the video he shows he has cams with him, yet he doesn't have a cam in the wall while drilling...

Gotta say, it doesn't look fake, could be, but I doubt it.

I probably woulda lodged hat drill in there a little farther before yarding on it, ha!

fake or not, that was pretty awesome. Some of that trundling is pretty gnarly, seriously dangerous belaying!

Clips drill bit (and I'm thinking, we'll have to see how that works out), and then it doesn't.

ViperScale wrote: No the point is he is standing next at a crack that looks like it would take gear, in the later part of the video he shows he has cams with him, yet he doesn't have a cam in the wall while drilling...

What crack do you see that you want to put gear in? The rock to his left is a flake that is flaring and shallow. He takes a pretty big fall and if he could have placed gear to prevent it I think he happily would have.

Ask him yourself he is commenting on the video in this thread: mountainproject.com/v/cool-…

DRusso wrote: What crack do you see that you want to put gear in? The rock to his left is a flake that is flaring and shallow. He takes a pretty big fall and if he could have placed gear to prevent it I think he happily would have. Ask him yourself he is commenting on the video in this thread: mountainproject.com/v/cool-…

Well like i said earlier I am just commenting on what I see and I thought it could be due to it being crap rock. However He is than drilling on something that is really close to crap rock and maybe just me but makes me question why you want to drill on rock that looks like that crack could grow up to behind your bolt.

I am not there and you can only see so much, I will take flaring and shallow any day over nothing unless I think it is going to break off and hit me on the head. He isn't going to take a big fall on it if he is only using it while drilling a bolt.

Classic MP thread. haha.

These guys have placed literally thousands of bolts in Vermont schist. That is not an exaggeration by any means. I've been developing routes for a year and a half and I've placed ~150 bolts. They've been doing it for a decade and a half.

Can we for once assume someone in a video knows what they're doing? Please?