Soloist Devices

I am seizing this opportunity, not trying to "hijack" this thread.

I'm new to lead soloing and I have done it with just a bottom anchor and use clove hitches, ec . The "self rescue/minimalist" way.

Question: is one of these devices THAT much better? That is is it faster and safer? The biggest drag to the clove hitch, tie off method is it takes a long time and I constantly have to lock off with one arm and adjust (sometimes I've had to use 2 arms to adjust the system). At best ill lead (safely) moderate with my primative method.

You think I could lead up to my max if I had a soloist device? Regardless of model. Thank you for your time!

I tried a friends Silent Partner out and opted to go with that device instead. Reviews have suggested that the Silent partner was a better choice between the two of them - tho I admit I never tried the Soloist myself. What I did find was the prices between the two devices are quite different. I had to purchased a used Silent Partner to afford it honestly. $250 for a brand new one was out of my budget.

As in anything - I think it comes down to being comfortable with YOUR choice of device - understanding how to use it correctly - the pro's and con's of each device, having some sort of back up system, etc.

Everyone has their own opinion(s) on all climbing products. Just ask about carabiner's and you'll get a multitude of diff answers and recommendations! Not saying everyone is wrong for sure - but everyone has their OWN particular likes and dislikes.

Locker wrote:^^^ You should just "Sack up" and use it for TR Soloing. It won't fuck your rope up unless you royally fuck up. I've used them for many years and ZERO negative issues with them for TR Soloing. signed, Dumbfuck from Where Montana ;-)

Hey locker do u have any tips on using the mini/micro Trax for tr soloing without fucking up your ropes? Do u just have to make sure u keep slack out of the system so u only fall as far as the rope stretches?

How are people damaging their ropes with mini-trax's? Do folks not put weight at the bottom or not pull slack if it doesn't feed perfectly or something?

BHMBen wrote:As for me.... SP for lead. Shunt for TR. Shunt, as Dave Macleod is utilizing it in this picture: With quicklink backup as demonstrated by Scott Bennett: Hundreds of pitches TR-soloed on the Shunt with quicklink backup....nary a problem. Tried the Trax a few times but don't like using the toothed clamp on my rope.

Several accidents has been reported with the Shunt and Petzl does not reccommend its use anymore for solo top-rope.
According to the company:
"SHUNT: Greater danger on sloping terrain where pressure against the device can impede jamming. The device will not jam if the user grabs the device during a fall."

Source: petzl.com/en/outdoor/produc…
(please click on the "Examples of possible malfunctions" link on that page).

I discovered that myself after buying one :( then I got a mini-traxion.

MTKirk wrote: From another thread, here's my experience with the Petzel Mini-Traxion I did some test falls up to 4' with 10' of rope (bluewater eliminator) out connected to a fixed anchor (so fall factor .4) result: ATC Guide in guide mode- no visible damage Petzel mini-traxion- ruined rope, mantle torn most of the way around rope and visible damage to kern fibers. Rope did hold.

A FF of 0.4 is a lead fall. The minitrax is good, but you do need to keep slack out of the system. Just like you would when jugging.

When i gave up on looking for a partner to climb, i looked into solo climbing and the first thing that was most prominent in my search was what was then, the Wren soloist. This was about 6 months ago. I didn't see any other devises coming up in my search at the time, so i bought one. I like to lead climb mostly, and would not use this devise for Top Rope, I mostly stay away from top roping. I have since Lead climbed solo'd a 5.4 (2 pitch took me 4), a 5.8 (1 pitch took me 2) and a 5.6 (1pitch took me 2). I like this devise for its function as a Cam, like the GriGri. So there is no toothed Bite. I am always worried about this devise however, and i refuse to "Test" any devisee by leaping to a fall, i simply make a point to try not to fall, and so far have not taken any huge whip's with this devise. I do like its ability to register a pull and cam up even when i slip just a bit, allowing me to recover,i have had 2 instances where this saved me from a 20 foot fall as protection was stretched thin. To make the devise more effective, Setting your protection above you gives you greater level of safety, and reduces your possibility of a overturned fall. all in all it takes practice to manage the rope directions and gear management, but once you get it down, it flows smooth and quick. The drag has gotten me a few times when the devise gets a bit twisted in awkward moves or my rope is out almost full and tangles a bit and i do fear the overturned fall. If i feel there is a greater possibility of turning upside down, i will tie off a stopper knot within 10 feet. takes more time and i have to tie and un-tie, but better safe then sorry. All in all this devise has allowed me to climb when i could not before due to no partner. I cannot say it is better than any other, and would love the opportunity to try all the devises to find what is best, but i don't have a money tree. If anyone can think of a way to create an additional level of safety for the overturned fall for this devise that does not require constant backup knots, let me know as it would make this the perfect devise.

If i worried about it that much, obviously i wouldn't climb with it. I did however see a video of a guy who was climbing a crack (Not solo), when he was too tired to go on, he called out falling, dropped, caught his gear, and flipped. He was on a standard belay so no issue, but that always sticks in the back of my head. Even when you know how to fall, there is the 1% chance, so i try to account for that as well. Especially since i climb over some overhangs that once turned over, is just air, no additional mountain to hit to possibly flip me upright.

Locker wrote:"Jonah, why on earth would you be worried about an "overturned fall"... Picture pulling a roof where you're already halfway there. Now picture ripping and flying backwards totally out of control. If only one could be certain of how they are going to fall. Problem is, you can't.

^^^ boom. truth bomb.

There are a few threads here on MTN Project talking about soloist devices, so I'll add my input to this particular thread because I had a near-death experience on one...

I've used a TR solo device with zero problems for both ice climbing an rock. Even used it when my rope had accumulated ice. No issues with it malfunctioning except during a sleet storm, where I used plenty of backup knots. [Note- poor choice to ice climb solo in those conditions.]

I did use the Wren Soloist for several sport climbing routes but then one day decided to push it on a route that I was not familiar with. Got about ten feet off the last anchor when I plucked off and took a nice whipper back into the wall, breaking my foot. Almost blacked on the line due to the pain. Managed to self-rescue but had to belly crawl back to my truck and drive myself to see two physicians who refused to see me (wasn't an "established patient"). Had to drive another 20 miles to the nearest emergency department.

Took me two years to recover fully due to the nature of the fracture.

Lesson learned- be extremely careful with these devices. Do not climb close to your limit. Be aware the rope gives very little on the Soloist- it is like taking a fall on non-dynamic line. You don't have the benefit of a belayer whose body weight / slack in his own harness, slack in the line, etc provides you with a bit of shock absorption. Talk to folks who have taken a Real Fall on one- you won't find many.

iceaxe5 wrote:Lesson learned- be extremely careful with these devices. Do not climb close to your limit. Be aware the rope gives very little on the Soloist- it is like taking a fall on non-dynamic line. You don't have the benefit of a belayer whose body weight / slack in his own harness, slack in the line, etc provides you with a bit of shock absorption. Talk to folks who have taken a Real Fall on one- you won't find many.

You should be extremely careful when free lead rope soloing for sure. Not sure how many pitches you got in before your accident, but I'd also caution working up some significant yardage with whatever system you use before tackling anything serious. I'd also advise against selecting pitches with low cruxs as there generally tends to be more slack in the system and a device might take a bit to lock up.

Otherwise, and while not my device of choice, the soloist has been used to do Astroman which one can assume was still somewhere in the ballpark of hard for that individual. Again, ramp up slow with free lead rope soloing - really focus on getting in a lot of easier pitches until the whole affair becomes second nature. From my own experience I can tell you it took me a couple of years of steady free lead roped soloing on multipitch climbs to ultimately find a groove with it. Also, every time I have changed my system over the years it too took some ramping up time to dial it all in and develop confidence in the changes.

I've fallen on a silent partner when free climbing and on aid.

It is possible this gives a little as it locks.

I always try and keep the fall factor low: place more gear or use it on slabs (i.e. not falling at 9.8m/s per s). Or I use it where the fall will be clean - i.e. overhanging. I use a screamer. On aid I clip it to the hall bag.

iceaxe5 wrote: Got about ten feet off the last anchor when I plucked off and took a nice whipper back into the wall, breaking my foot. Almost blacked on the line due to the pain.

"Last anchor"? Sounds like maybe you were fixing the rope at intermediate points in the pitch. That's a bad idea. It needlessly shortens the cord available in a fall i.e. increases FF. Better to just find a way to support the weight of the rope (so it won't run by itself through the Soloist. This happens quite easily on ice - less friction, slick dry rope). Tie the rope in with rubber bands or prusiks made of cotton twine, or something equally creative.

The use of screamers is a great idea, however I should say that I have not had the courage to try a Wren Soloist on ice lead..... For rock climbing, it's a terrific idea.

What I did do (a mistake in hindsight) was to tie prussiks at various points to back up my ground anchors- this did reduce the dynamic character of the rope. It was the only time I had ever done that (I was constantly testing different approaches for safety). I misstated, however, above- I was not above an 'anchor' but rather the last bolt I clipped a quickdraw into.

Always used a chest harness and never climbed anything that could pitch me upside down.

iceaxe5 wrote:...a Wren Soloist on ice lead..... For rock climbing, it's a terrific idea.

Not necessarily. I know of a highly competent climber who decked with one on falling in a horizontal orientation - doesn't necessarily have to be inverted to have it fail.

i borrowed a friend's soloist, maybe 15 years ago or so, and used it for a couple months. then i heard about problems with it catching slab falls or lateral falls (ie with the device out to the side of the last protection point). i did some tests with a loaded haul bag simulating the lateral falls and it failed absolutely miserably. never used it again...

Easy to remedy, When I use mine I tie overhand knots on a bight (. I practiced how to do this one handed on my home wall ). Then I put an carabiner in the loop and then pull the bottom tight. Now if the device does fail or just doesn't catch. The knot and the carabiner would have to be ripped through the device. This only works for top roping. I guess it could work on lead you would just have to pre tie the knots and then undo them as you go.

I've only ever used a Silent Partner for solo lead climbing on easy trad routes that I knew I wouldn't fall on. It seemed to feed well for sure.

I just recently (after reading lots of info here on the site) purchased two Petzl Micro Traxions for top rope soloing. I used them the other day on a gently overhanging (not cavey) 12+ sport route at AF in conjunction with a 10.5mm Edelweiss Stratos rope that was my bigwall rope. I aided up the route using my grigri, fixed, and used the traxions to work out the moves. They performed flawlessly and I "took" many times including small "falls" without issue. No sheath damage to the rope at all.

I used a mini haul bag with a few rocks in it to keep the rope taught and back clipped the draws as I went. The devices fed beautifully and were very confidence inspiring.

While I think it would be tough to climb an entire route at your limit using them, they were great for the intended purpose of sussing out moves and getting the feel of a route.

The only thing that bothered me on the traxion's for solo was their KN factor.

Capt. Impatient wrote:Easy to remedy

...

Capt. Impatient wrote:This only works for top roping.

It's not easy to remedy on lead and, as you note, that doesn't help if you do end up leading a hard pitch with a low crux.

In general, as a rule of thumb, I would encourage folks to keep TR solo, aid solo and lead rope solo posts in separate dedicated threads and not mix those discussions in any single thread as it's easy for someone new to all this to get confused about how and when to apply what's being said..