Endurance

I'd like to hear from a 5.12 climber how they built up their endurance. I can't cross over 11b and I'm starting to get frustrated! In the simplest terms how did you get to where you are? Thanks!

you just gotta keep climbing. The more you climb the more you pick up on subtle things that help keep you focused and use less energy. By just climbing more and more that obviously helps with endurance too.

Mike Collins wrote:you just gotta keep climbing. The more you climb the more you pick up on subtle things that help keep you focused and use less energy. By just climbing more and more that obviously helps with endurance too.

This. Also, pick an outdoor route that you find pumpy, but doable, and do laps on it.

1) Fingerboard. 2x per week. Start here: trainingbeta.com/mark-and-m…

2) Max recruit lat pulldown. 3 sets, 3 reps. 5 minutes rest between sets. Failure on third rep. (Described in this great article: climbing.com/skill/training…)

3) Train antagonist muscles. Push ups. Dips. Reverse wrist curls. and more... Good resource here: nicros.com/training/article…

Another valuable resource: dpmclimbing.com/articles/vi…

4) Keep doing your research. The interwebs are chock full of articles like this: rockandice.com/rock-climbin… that provide fodder for your own program

5) Get on harder climbs.

6) Get lighter

^^ This will get you started...

Personal note: I've been climbing for almost 7 years and this past weekend achieved my best performance (if using grade as a measurement) thus far. I recently moved to Ohio for grad school, bought a hangboard, and started training in the weight room. This is the first time I've ever trained for climbing by training rather than just going climbing.

I sent two 5.12's in the Red first try and previously was always afraid to even attempt the grade.

Dylan Weldin wrote:1) Fingerboard. 2x per week. Start here: trainingbeta.com/mark-and-m… 2) Max recruit lat pulldown. 3 sets, 3 reps. 5 minutes rest between sets. Failure on third rep. (Described in this great article: climbing.com/skill/training…) 3) Train antagonist muscles. Push ups. Dips. Reverse wrist curls. and more... Good resource here: nicros.com/training/article… Another valuable resource: dpmclimbing.com/articles/vi… 4) Keep doing your research. The interwebs are chock full of articles like this: rockandice.com/rock-climbin… that provide fodder for your own program 5) Get on harder climbs. 6) Get lighter ^^ This will get you started...

Uhh...say what? Try climbing some more first.

Jon Clark wrote: Uhh...say what? Try climbing some more first.

How do you know what kind of climbing volume he/she has or if they are in any position to increase that volume? Sometimes, just increasing more of the same type of exercise, i.e. just increasing volume has limited results.

OP-how sure are you that endurance is the problem? Do you routinely pump off of holds that you should be able to move off of? Is there more often or not a "stopper" move/crimp etc?

I wouldn't call myself a 5.12 climber but I have climbed a couple of 12s and been on a lot of them. I was stuck at 11b for a couple of years. Here is what I did/am doing:

-Climb with stronger people, but don't toprope. Be a good belayer and they will hang draws on your proj (their warmup) in exchange for a catch on theirs.

-Hangboard

-Climb at a diversity of areas, and styles. It can slow your 'progress' i.e., seems like you are staying at the same grade but you are getting better by expanding your repertoire of moves and techniques.

-Don't let go. Don't say take. take the whip

csproul wrote: How do you know what kind of climbing volume he/she has or if they are in any position to increase that volume? Sometimes, just increasing more of the same type of exercise, i.e. just increasing volume has limited results. OP-how sure are you that endurance is the problem? Do you routinely pump off of holds that you should be able to move off of? Is there more often or not a "stopper" move/crimp etc?

Volume works for me and I've climbed harder than 5.12. Dude asked what has worked for people, so there you go.

I'm not a .12 climber right now due to an injury, but I was this time last year, so I'll throw a couple cents into this.

I would say arcing and hangboarding. If you aren't doing these two things, start now. Obviously climbing (leading) more sport always helps one to better lead sport. But if you've zeroed in on endurance as being the limiting factor (and it seems like it might very well be since your profile puts you bouldering at v5), then you train for endurance. Arcing will teach pump management and condition you for climbing specific cardio. Hangboarding increases your isometric finger strength and endurance -- very helpful for managing pump and getting hard clips clipped.

Take it from me though -- don't over-train and don't under-rest. :)

Good luck!

Jon Clark wrote: Volume works for me and I've climbed harder than 5.12. Dude asked what has worked for people, so there you go.

That's great that it worked for you. I guess he did ask what worked for you! But the suggestion "climb more" may not be useful, especially when you have no idea how much he is climbing to begin with.

Yes I get pumped out and I'm climbing 3-4 days a week. Crimp strength doesn't seem to build up either.

After 15+ years of sport climbing low 5.12s, what helped me break into hard 12s was multiple 15 minute sessions in the gym. The idea is to go at a slow to avg pace, and just be able to barely hold on at the end of 15 minutes (so diff from arcing). As you get stronger, make the traverse harder, so you are always failing at the end of 15 mins (about 165 moves for me).

So warm up, go for 15 min, rest for 15 min, then go for another 15. Twice a week. I did this as part of my training for 2 years. The third year I focused on power training, and climbed my hardest yet.

your mileage may vary.

Hangboarding is very helpful.

Also, strength is much more important than endurance. The reason you can climb 5.6 all day isn't because you have good endurance, it's because you have the strength for the individual moves.

Climbing is rarely an endurance activity in the true sense of the word (continual sub-maximum use for a long period of time). It's more like sprints and recovery.

limpingcrab wrote:Hangboarding is very helpful. Also, strength is much more important than endurance. The reason you can climb 5.6 all day isn't because you have good endurance, it's because you have the strength for the individual moves. Climbing is rarely an endurance activity in the true sense of the word (continual sub-maximum use for a long period of time). It's more like sprints and recovery.

Completely disagree. Strength will only take you so far. I know many, many V10-V11 boulderers who can't climb any harder than the 5.12 range. For OP to push into the 12s, all he needs is consistent V4/V5 levels of power/strength. The trick is to be able to recruit fully when pumped.

OP - to build endurance you need to train for endurance. From a training perspective, ARCing is probably the easiest to wrap your head around. Other things are learning to rest, climbing more efficiently, and not overgripping.

Jon H wrote: Completely disagree. Strength will only take you so far. I know many, many V10-V11 boulderers who can't climb any harder than the 5.12 range. For OP to push into the 12s, all he needs is consistent V4/V5 levels of power/strength. The trick is to be able to recruit fully when pumped. OP - to build endurance you need to train for endurance. From a training perspective, ARCing is probably the easiest to wrap your head around. Other things are learning to rest, climbing more efficiently, and not overgripping.

Agreed, but hangboarding is super helpful too. It isn't just a strength exercise. It's endurance as well. Usually it is training to increase load at a steady time under tension. The stronger and longer you can hang, the more you can endure.

I am also lacking the endurance to climb 12s. I have the power, but not the endurance. What hangboard workout should I do?

personally ditch the HB for endurance workouts, you need consistant time on the wall. typcially climbing un interupted for 20-30 minutes per the Anderson Brothers climbers manual. ive found long term ARC training to be crucial for not only endurance but techique as well. This will encourage active rests aswell as confidnce climbing with pump. Aslofocus on the grades leading up to 12a, work lots of 11c and a few 11d before the 12. happy training! 

Tynan, 

The hangoard is not the best place to train endurance. Repeaters have an endurance aspect, but if finger strength isn't limiting you then ARC and power endurance training are the solutions you are looking for.

OP,

How long have you been climbing? If less than one year, technique might be what is holding you back. It also could be your mental game. The Neil Gresham masterclass videos on YouTube are a good resource for shoring up any technique shortcomings. The Rock Warrior's Way is an excellent, if slightly dry resource for the mental side of your climbing.

If you do have solid technique and stay mentally calm while climbing, then your weak link could be finger strength or endurance. Unless you have the world's flimsiest fingers you probably not stuck due to finger strength. You are lacking aerobic and/or anaerobic endurance. Your aerobic endurance can be built up using ARC training, as described by the Anderson brothers. Buy the book, it's worth it. This is the place to start, and a good exercise to serve as the backbone of your initial training regimen. It will both help with individual routes and also help with how many you can get into each day without running out of gas. The time spent on the wall can also be used to practice technique. 

It is never too early to start hangboarding, IMO. If you stick with this sport and aspire to climb hard routes strength will always become a limiting factor at some point. Hangboarding does take away from time you could spend training other aspects of your climbing though. It also isn't an insta-magic bullet, you can't start hangboarding then immediately go try harder stuff, that's how people get hurt. Proper rest is also required after a hangboard workout. Not respecting these two principles is how people get hurt hangboarding. If a newer climber keeps the volume low, starts off easy (lots of weight removed with a pulley), rests well, and doesn't try to immediately jump two V-grades there is nothing dangerous about hangboarding. It just has an opportunity cost that should be weighed against other forms of training.

Some other people have mentioned this. I will too. 

If you can do 11b and are climbing 3-4 days a week, it's not endurance holding you back. It's your technique. You're doing something wrong. I don't know what. Maybe you can't read the route, maybe your footwork is terrible, maybe you're hanging on every hold way too long before making a move, maybe you're terrified and overgripping. This is the root of your perceived lack of endurance.

Get really introspective with your climbing, analyze, also ask friends. A clearer picture will emerge. I guarantee you aren't falling off 12a in the front range for lack of endurance. 

You need to effectively diagnose the problem(s), first.

Also I think we need to speak the same language (and that which most article you would want to read will use): sending a single route has nothing to do with endurance, unless you're talking about a day-long multi-pitch. Endurance is the ability to maintain performance for a relatively low-intensity activity for you during a long (long!) time - think climbing a given grade all day long. This is closer to marathon running.

Sending a single route without pumping out is more about power-endurance: the ability to maintain a high performance for an average period of time (e.g. sending one route, say around 10 min) at a relatively high intensity level. This is closer to a spartan race type of effort. So really what you seem to have in mind is power-endurance (PE) - searching for that keyword is likely to provide more accurate results.

(Then you could see bouldering as a sprint, to compare with running. That's explosive power).

Also you need to diagnose this is indeed what is holding you back. A couple thoughts...

• There are many different styles of routes - steep, slabby, verticale, cruxy, sustained, tricky-beta/easy climbing, powerfull, delicate.... If climbing always the same style and not being a very well-rounded climber, it may be hard to find a route at your limit you can send. Because any bit of it doesn't play to your narrow strengths (if they are narrow) is going to be too hard. So you may want to meditate on that, find the styles that you are good at those you struggle with. If the goal is just to send any X grade route, then find one that plays to your strength. In the big picture however, the best would be to go to climbs you tend to avoid.You issue may or not be PE - you're just not very versatile.
• Not all route and not all 12 require PE. If it feels they all do, always, require lots of it, the issue is that this is too hard for you now. Face climb usually require less PE, and outdoors has perhaps more routes that aren't as sustained as those found in gyms. Gyms tend to set sustained routes partly because they don't necessarily have 100 feet of vertical face at their disposal, so they try to make the most of whatever they have. Also because this tends to provide an experience closer to what most climber seem to want most of the time (no one really likes a ledge in the middle). So get on routes that have good rests and/or that aren't too steep and ideally outdoor. Slabby-ish or at least for some part of it is good. You can't send those either? Your problem isn't power-endurance, your problem is that you're not strong enough yet. Go bouldering.
• Assuming you are getting on 12s and just not able to send... How's the projecting of those going? How far do you get on your first attempt? How many falls at your 2nd/3rd attempt? Opinions on that will vary... but for my part, if I can't get to the top of a climb without hand-dogging every other draw, I'm just not really a climber of that grade*. If you really are strong enough to climb that grade, you should take at the crux(es) to figure out the sequence and perhaps once or twice to get a rest (first attempt is going to be inefficient energy-wise, that's normal.). But you should be able to climb "the filling" between the cruxes or the sustained bits. If not, go bouldering.
• When do you fall on those routes? Are you stuck at the cruxes? Get to the crux (take a couple times on the way, ensure not to get pump. You're not trying to send). Take just below the crux. When you feel at a 100%, attempt the crux. Does it still feel hard/fall often even after multiple attempts? If yes, your problem isn't power endurance, you're not strong enough. Go bouldering.
• Assuming you're been working that route a couple times and have it mostly dialed. Falling early on isn't likely to be a sign of insufficient power-endurance (maybe the moves are just too hard for you). You should at that point be falling once or at most twice for a very sustained route, due to pump. Once you take for a couple minutes to recover, the rest should then feel easy (even though on redpoint it seemed impossible). THIS is a sign that your power-endurance is lacking. Stop bouldering.

* Of course you can project grades which require you to handdog your first attempt every draw. But that's a long-term project, not the grade you're really "ready" to climb.