Gunks Rock Fall

Just to throw another opinion out there--

I think these situations like the one reported on Ursula are a daily occurrence and most of the time all people involved are well-intentioned. Many of the descent routes, even some of the ones established by the Preserve or the GCC as bolted rappel highways, go down popular routes. No matter how much you yell from the top of the cliff, a party below you may not be able to hear you.

From the top I just try to yell really loud and snake the rope down slowly-- and since I know my way around I try to use descents that don't go over popular routes when I can. But I still come down over parties coming up sometimes; it's very difficult to avoid. All you can really do is try to be conscious of people below you when you're on top, and try to be aware when you're leading that a rope may come from above! And try to coexist. The Gunks is a crowded playground.

SethG wrote:Just to throw another opinion out there-- I think these situations like the one reported on Ursula are a daily occurrence and most of the time all people involved are well-intentioned. Many of the descent routes, even some of the ones established by the Preserve or the GCC as bolted rappel highways, go down popular routes. No matter how much you yell from the top of the cliff, a party below you may not be able to hear you. From the top I just try to yell really loud and snake the rope down slowly-- and since I know my way around I try to use descents that don't go over popular routes when I can. But I still come down over parties coming up sometimes; it's very difficult to avoid. All you can really do is try to be conscious of people below you when you're on top, and try to be aware when you're leading that a rope may come from above! And try to coexist. The Gunks is a crowded playground.

I second this. I was not trying to create a conversation around rappelling ethics in the gunks. In fact this incident did not involve rappelling at all. But since were on that topic I'm at the gunks almost every weekend that the weather allows and for the most part have had very good experiences. Communication is not always ideal at the gunks because of the large amount of roofs so although most climbers are well intentioned situations still do happen. As Seth stated the gunks is a crowded playground and we should make sure that we are always using best practice.

Russ Keane wrote:Luckily at the Gunks, these large rock falls are very isolated incidents. Kind of a freak thing.

I've been a sonic witness to 3 major rock falls in the last 2 years at the Gunks.

I talked to the party that knocked the block down. It happened on Red Pillar. They were a party of 3 and as the last climber was coming up one of the team on the GT ledge barely nudged a microwave sized rock. Luckily the third climber was off to the side.

It certainly sounded like half the cliff came down. Lucky that no one got hurt on such a busy weekend.

Special thanks to whoever yelled "ROCK!" loudly and repeatedly. It is all too common to hear "rock" called quietly and a single time.
Even if there's only a single, small rock falling, the call should always be loud and repeated.
And if there's more than one rock, "ROCK! ROCK FALL! ROCK FALL! ROCK FALL!" is best.
Yes, helmets always at the base of the cliff, and especially on weekends, when there are so many gym climbers.

kswissto wrote:There was one at the top of the 2nd pitch of the Red Pillar at the GT ledge that sat right before the tree anchor. For years, I've been wondering when that thing was going to go.

This is exactly the block I suspect.

I knocked off a microwave sized block last year near YUM YUM YAB YUM. I didn't even pull on it I just tapped it to see if it was stable and it started to roll.. barley missed my rope.. my belayer and the party of 3 at the base. A belayer was struck by some rock fragments but fortunately the cliff Bowes out at the bottom there and the rock cleared the tail.. Rock fall isn't all to commone there but if you look at the base of the cliff you can see that monster rocks to come down.

I've never screamed so loud in my life when I saw that thing taking off it was terrifying..

SethG wrote:Many of the descent routes, even some of the ones established by the Preserve or the GCC as bolted rappel highways, go down popular routes. No matter how much you yell from the top of the cliff, a party below you may not be able to hear you.

Case in point - the rap from Minty. For many, many years, there was a large tree on the GT ledge there that folks rapped from. Unfortunately, this put the descending party directly onto the lower pitches of the super-popular Snooky's Return. Eventually the tree died and rapping climbers had to go elsewhere, and climbers on Snooky's were better off for it.

But lo and behold, in the flurry of recent bolting activity, a pair of rap bolts have appeared on Minty at the GT ledge. So we're back to square one, and leaders on Snooky's will be hit with ropes once again. I support the intention of the ASCA-funded GCC bolting program, but there have been some serious mis-steps.

Oh, and lest someone think these particular bolts are part of an intentional descent route, they are not - there's nothing at the top of the cliff to get you down to the GTL at that location. I can only assume they were put there to encourage people to skip the last pitch of the climbs in that vicinity (pitches which deserve to be climbed IMO).

Talking Rockfall, if anyone has a chance to go inspect those loose blocks on the first pitch of Keep on Strutting during weekdays.
There's a few X'd blocks one of which is such an inciting foot hold.

The area below is guaranteed to have people since this is also the corner start to Updraft and CCK.

Luc wrote:Talking Rockfall, if anyone has a chance to go inspect those loose blocks on the first pitch of Keep on Strutting during weekdays. There's a few X'd blocks one of which is such an inciting foot hold. The area below is guaranteed to have people since this is also the corner start to Updraft and CCK.

I can check it out tomorrow. But KoS's first pitch is well left of the ED/CCK start. Unless someone is near the base of Moonlight, a rock from P1 of KoS is unlikely to take anyone out.

We were just beginning to rap Arrow when the fall happened (yeah, I was one in the sea of "HUGE ROCK!!!" voices). We had finished up on Red Pillar before that - likely the last party before the one that pulled it off. I didn't see anything else on the ledge other than the big block referenced above that seemed likely to come off.

Super relieved no one was killed. Actually surprised no one was hurt. That was a massive chunk of pain coming down at you guys.

Bill Kirby wrote: I witnessed ropes thrown down on a leader twice. Once the party above pulled their rope back up. The next time the leader pulled the rappelling party's rope. Both times the parties above just disappeared. I like the saying "common sense isn't so common"

On the opening moves of Last Shall P2 Saturday I had a rope pile land on my head - no warning from above. That was annoying, though admittedly the party of 4 that then proceeded to (slowly) rap over me was probably even more annoying.

Rock fall happens at the Gunks more than people realize. I ripped a block about the size of a loaf of bread out of Frog's Head last year, ~40' above the GT ledge. That was the loudest I have ever yelled in my life. I remember looking down in horror at two groups hanging out below the climb and the climber below me. Luckily the rock bounced off the wall and landed just beyond the staging area. It took me a few minutes to regain my composure after that one. Be safe out there guys.

~ Gabe

Luc honestly I think you are confusing the first pitch of Erect Direction with Keep on Struttin'.

Erect Direction goes up the left wall of the Updraft corner with steep juggy moves and a few loose blocks/flakes.

The first pitch of Keep on Struttin is around the corner to the left and past Moonlight's big left facing corner. Keep on Struttin P1 is a less-than-vertical face pitch with a few cruxy face moves (thin gear, tiny nuts/cams) up to a tree that often has fixed slings on it; and then up easier ground to the GT Ledge.

Hey Everyone,

I'm the person that caused the rockfall Saturday on Red Pillar. It was incredibly scary and am very thankful that no one was injured.

I'm not sure that it is the block that most folks are referring to, I certainly wouldn't call it refrigerator size. The block was, from what I remember, approximately three feet long by one foot wide and maybe 6-10 inches deep, obviously still big enough for alarm. I had brought up one of my partners and was moving around to make more space for her when I began to tentatively step on the block, it took very little pressure to make it move. At first it seemed it might stop but obviously that didn't happen.

The big block that is directly below the common belay tree, a hemlock I think, is still there. It is much bigger than what came down. Perhaps that is the refrigerator block?

Anyway, I want to reiterate how thankful I am that no one was directly below and I apologize for the terror it no doubt created. I was amazed at how easily the block moved considering the number of people that must have moved around it every year. It is a good reminder to me of how climbing is, to some degree, a pursuit of probabilities. If you're in it for long enough, there are going to be close calls. I know my vigilance around suspect rock has just increased dramatically.

Be safe
Mark

SethG wrote:Luc honestly I think you are confusing the first pitch of Erect Direction with Keep on Struttin'. Erect Direction goes up the left wall of the Updraft corner with steep juggy moves and a few loose blocks/flakes. The first pitch of Keep on Struttin is around the corner to the left and past Moonlight's big left facing corner. Keep on Struttin P1 is a less-than-vertical face pitch with a few cruxy face moves (thin gear, tiny nuts/cams) up to a tree that often has fixed slings on it; and then up easier ground to the GT Ledge.

My bad! You're right, based on the MP description.

Thanks for replying, Mark.

Mark A.S. wrote:Hey Everyone, I'm the person that caused the rockfall Saturday on Red Pillar. It was incredibly scary and am very thankful that no one was injured. I'm not sure that it is the block that most folks are referring to, I certainly wouldn't call it refrigerator size. The block was, from what I remember, approximately three feet long by one foot wide and maybe 6-10 inches deep, obviously still big enough for alarm. I had brought up one of my partners and was moving around to make more space for her when I began to tentatively step on the block, it took very little pressure to make it move. At first it seemed it might stop but obviously that didn't happen. The big block that is directly below the common belay tree, a hemlock I think, is still there. It is much bigger than what came down. Perhaps that is the refrigerator block? Anyway, I want to reiterate how thankful I am that no one was directly below and I apologize for the terror it no doubt created. I was amazed at how easily the block moved considering the number of people that must have moved around it every year. It is a good reminder to me of how climbing is, to some degree, a pursuit of probabilities. If you're in it for long enough, there are going to be close calls. I know my vigilance around suspect rock has just increased dramatically. Be safe Mark

Thanks for the reply Mark.

Mark A.S. wrote:It is a good reminder to me of how climbing is, to some degree, a pursuit of probabilities. If you're in it for long enough, there are going to be close calls. I know my vigilance around suspect rock has just increased dramatically. Be safe Mark

Well said Mark! :-)

I was down in the four seasons and Filipina area Sunday and there was a lot of rock coming down with no climbers up. I noticed there was a lot of buzzard activity in the area and a few times saw one landing on the GT. I suspect that whenever they land and take off there is high probability for rock fall. At times it was literally raining small rocks. We hid out under the roof at Filipina and avoided it. Probably a nest up there.

Also, please be careful when pulling ropes at rappels. For me it isn't so much the rope hitting me that I'm concerned about. Its the rocks that may come off the cliff edge with the rope. The rappel to the left of Madame G comes to mind. If you double rope rappel from the GT there is a lot of loose stone there and I've seen softball size chunks of rock fly off the ledge when the rope pulls through the rings. We ALWAYS hug the cliff when we pull ropes. Anything I'm missing on how to avoid this? rgold? gunkiemike?

I often spend time, when belaying my second or waiting to rap, moving rocks and pebbles away from the edge to more stable areas less prone to drainage or tumbling back down.