Do committment grades take into account the approach?

It seems like I've read contradictory positions on this. Does a grade take into account approach time? ie. a 1000' 5.9 with a 30 minute approach might be grade III, but would adding a 4 hour approach each way make it grade IV?

No, the commitment grade is based on the time it takes to climb the route. The approach is not part of the commitment grade.

Yes it does. Maybe it shouldn't but it does.

Look at the Diamond as a prime example. It's 4-6 pitches of climbing for most routes. It's a big hike, lots of scree hopping, and 400' of low 5th class to get to the start. Also some 'Rad cliche about elevation. Arianna is probably the same length as Doub Griffith in Eldo or Solid Gold in CCC.

I think it most often doesn't take into account approach time althought you'll find many examples of both. You'll need to find a good reference - Freedom of the Hills? To contradict the above, look at the Grand Teton. Several grade II and III routes that would be considered the same grade with a much easier approach.
Joe

According to the great and almighty wikipedia the approach is part of the grade. However I have seen alot of people who do it include and not included.

The YDS system involves an optional Roman numeral grade that indicates the length and seriousness of the route. The Grade is more relevant to mountaineering and big wall climbing, and usually not stated when talking about short rock climbs. The grades range from grade I to VI spanning a one hour climb to a multi-day climb respectively.[6]

I-II: 1 or 2 pitches near the car, but may need to be avoided during avalanche season.

III: Requires most of a day perhaps including the approach, which may require winter travel skills (possible avalanche terrain, placing descent anchors). The East Buttress route on Mt. Whitney is a grade III,[7] yet it requires 1,000 feet of technical climbing and a total gain of over 6,000 vertical feet from trail head to summit. Only a minority of climbers, the most fit and seasoned, could do this route car to car in a day. Other grade III climbs, such as Cathedral Peak in Tuolumne, are typically done in one day.

IV: A multipitch route at higher altitude or remote location, which may involve multi-hour approaches in serious alpine terrain. A predawn start is usually indicated, and unforeseen delays can lead to unplanned bivouacs high on the route.

V: A multi-day climbing adventure for all but the elite few. The route, Dark Star, on Temple Crag is grade V[8] and involves a seven-mile approach and over 2,200 feet, 30 pitches[9] of technical climbing.

VI: A multi-day climbing adventure for all. Peter Croft saves this grade for the mythical Palisade Traverse, a massive route which includes six 14,000-foot summits and miles of technical climbing.[9] He states, "This is the only route in this book that I haven't completed in a single push, although I've done all the crux sections at various times."

VII: Under discussion.

ViperScale wrote:According to the great and almighty wikipedia ...

So clearly that article is including the approach, since otherwise SE Buttress of Cathedral Peak in Tuolumne Meadows Calif could never be grade III - (is it?)

The key "problem" with including the approach is that it does not take into account possible bivouac at the base of the climb. Or comfortable camping along the approach (highly relevant to the Mt Whitney East Buttress explanation).

In Europe most climbs with substantial approaches have a hut along the way. So obviously there the "calculation" of commitment grade starts at the hut, not the car trailhead.

One approach to solving the "problem" is to have two commitment grades: one for doing it car-to-car, another for camping along the way.

Ken