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Alaska Climbing!

cavemonkey · · AK · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 0

Be careful Lang
Gotta put your time in before you start talking big like that young buck. I understand chelsea is your friend, but u gotta put your time in before u start dictating the ethics of hatcher pass. I feel bad for you young bucks that didn't have the privilege of climbing with the pioneers of the area, but this is blatantly unacceptable. Take my word for it

L. Von Dommelheimer · · Anchorage · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 2,835

This isn't about ethics, this is about dislike of Kelsey.

Even if this were a retro bolted route, which its becoming clear it's probably not, with the permission of the FA party it's a moot point, now I'm sure if Pollard or Sweeney changed their mind about where the route went, or were upset about the bolts, the bolting party on the new route, would probably remove them, however rather than contacting either Pollard or Sweeny or both, JK and AH went on an anti Kelsey rampage, that is my problem.

Also I've never condoned retrobolting anything. If this were actually a retrobolt, it might have been better to bring it to Kelsey's attention in a different manner.

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

Actually I did talk to Sweeney yesterday... Ask him

The Shocker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 511
Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

BTW - Sweeney said he "hadn't heard about the bolts on Lemming Ranch. Though it had good gear...pussies".

Dommelheimer you should ask him. After all you recommend that's what I do? So I did.... I'm guessing it's not the answer you expected from him...

If you need to know how to get in touch with him let me know. I can help you out. So can everyone else here who's not in favor of the reto bolt addition...

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

Guess your "with the permission of the F.A. Party" bs augment is now a "moot" point...

cavemonkey · · AK · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 0

Kind of ironic that your avatar is a pic of the monolith shocker!!!!!
Is that as far as you hike? ;)

No fing way did Sweeny say "Sure, pussify the start to that beauty natural feature that has been a ballsy, proud route for 30 years"

no fing way

Chelsea and lang, don't even think about coming anywhere near garveys route to the right while you are out there. I know its tempting to make your variations, just don't do it. Good rule of thumb is, if your "new route" will change the character of an existing route.....its too close. Move along.

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

This is what Sweeney said...

"Hadn't heard about the bolts on Lemming Ranch. Though it had good gear...pussies".

No one asked him anything about retro bolting his old routes. The idea that permission was given by the FA party to add bolts is a lie.

L. Von Dommelheimer · · Anchorage · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 2,835

This is becoming name calling. I'm out. fyi I didn't drop any bolts anywhere near lemming ranch in fact, I've never placed a bolt in Reed. All my routes are independent lines, thats just how I roll.

Kelsey Gray · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 209

Hey John I replied to your post over on Supertopo. Can you keep your trash talk to one thread? Its exhausting following your lies around.

Kelsey Gray · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 209

Guess I'll chime in here too since you spread your blowhard anger around the net.

The Shocker and Cave Monkey...or in my guess probably Skinny and Andy, the history of an area is a funny thing. The first book was, admittedly filled with inconsistencies as any first book would be but I don't think you should really complain about it. Especially since I spent plenty of time trying to gather as much information about route names and FA information as possible. You should remember, you were there being rather tight lipped about the whole endeavor. Even if you're not who I think you are you still had, and still do have, the option of correcting any information that you might think is wrong. I may not know all the history of an area but neither do you and I'd be willing to bet there is a fair amount that I know that you dont. Nobody even seemed to know or care that Wiener Lake was private property. No care for the land owner of the area that is the ethical climbing wasteland of Alaska. The guide is constantly changing and updating. If you're pissed about misinformation than freaking do something about it, don't just sit back and spray. I was born here. I learned to climb on Alaska stone. I've asked and bothered everyone who I could possibly get ahold of about information on their routes and I've corrected many things that were wrong from book to book. It happens. Especially in such an ego rich area such as Alaska.

John - Its really time you stop talking about Alaska climbing like you have any claim to it or idea that you know what your talking about. You don't climb here on the rock. You've admitted it. You've probably never climbed Lemming Ranch because you probably cant. Thats fine, everyone has their own specialties but don't walk around beating your chest when you really don't have any idea what your talking about. I could go around giving long answers to all your questions but I know that you don't care. You just want to complain and spray around the internet like a 15 year old who just got Facebook. Its frustrating to me that I have to follow you around to try and justify or prove to you that you are mistaken. I won't do it anymore. You're wrong. So move on.

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

Your claims that I don't climb here are ridiculous. As far as that grade goes... well I was putting up harder routes in the mid 90's... Long before you started. As far as the routes I've done in AK... Well you simply don't have the skill set to repeat any of them. Not a single one...that goes for all of your buddies too. Yep that's around 50 grade IV's and up, around 1,000 pitches that are beyond your level. All ground up and bolt free too...

Not that it matters because when I come across routes I can't do I don't add bolts to them to bring them down to my level like you have repeatedly done...

A picture is worth a thousand words...

The "original" is in yellow.

Retro bolts

And early photo of Lemming Ranch... Either the original line or an early variation. Either way pretty clear it has been done.

Pre reto bolts

It's strikingly obvious that these are retro bolts. Your claims that you had "permission" from the FA team are a lie. We know that neither you or Kristopher Klein contacted Sweeney who was half of the FA party. The irony here is your calling others out for not being local... It's hilarious. You failed to contact the member of the FA party who still lives in AK and is a local.

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

What's shocking to me is the diversity of the people who think that you fucked up placing these bolts...

Skinny, Andy, Clint, and I all have very different ideas and styles... Very different. However we all seem to agree that this is yet another one of your mistakes.

Most people learn from their mistakes but apparently you are not one of these people...

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

Here's a few of Kelsey's quotes from the Taco since he can't follow his own recommendation to keep this in one spot.

"We didn't put it up as an alternate start but it can be used as one by running it out on unprotected ground. How many climbs have alternate starts?"

Here you are admitting to adding a retro bolted alternate start. It's also not unprotected anymore... You go right past the bolt in your photo..

"It makes it a more appetizing climb that will probably see a lot more traffic at this point".

Here's Kelsey admitting to them being retro bolts again.

"The first bolt does look like it could be on or near the route".

These are the words right out of your mouth.

Explain how these aren't retro bolts.

cavemonkey · · AK · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 0

Me and stoner b bootied the original bottom belay several years ago as it was faded/shredded tat-rusty ring angle for memorabilia.... it is an interesting note that it was located directly under the first bolt of chelsea's retro job. Another side note, of the 3 people who have climbed "Lemming" since the retro, have used the bolted/retro start to access the upper corner..... including chelsea's co-conspirator Kris.
fact

cavemonkey · · AK · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 0

Can anyone confirm or deny whether "tax man" also has a retro variation please

Griswald · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 622

Tax Man has not been Retroed. I don't think Kris has climbed the Lemming Ranch.

cavemonkey · · AK · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 0

Wrong Kris/Chris
my apologizes to the innocent party
sorry Kris
tax man was not retroed so I'm told also

Johnkelley Kelley · · Juneau, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 265

"I only use ASCA gear for rebolting so I'm not putting crap bolts in". This is from Kelsey today.

This is from the ASCA's homepage...

"The amount of protection on a climb is traditionally determined by the first to climb the route, and while climbing is a fairly anarchistic pursuit, the one revered tradition is that later climbers never add additional fixed protection to an existing route. In other words, the addition of bolts or pitons to existing routes is not tolerated unless the first person to do the route adds the bolts to their own route".

The ASCA supplied Kelsey with bolts after his intentional retro bolting of Hocus Pocus and Splat Button several years ago. Something about how he wouldn't do it again... Well hear we are again. Go figure...

Is the ASCA still supplying him with bolts/hardware?

Is, or has, the ASCA supplied his partner Kristopher Klein with bolts/hardware?

Oddly enough the Alaska section on the ASCA site is down

Edit

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Pacific Northwest
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