Using ATC guide at a belay at the end of a traverse
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I've been told that using the ATC in guide mode at a belay at the end of a traverse is not a good idea because it may fail to autolock. Thus, I've always belayed off my harness at the end of a traverse. However, I have played around with the ATC in guide mode and it seems like the autolock still engages even if the rope is coming in horizontal. Of course, when I've played around with this, the ATC was free to rotate about the carabiner that attaches the ATC to the anchor. I suppose there could be situations where that wouldn't happen. |
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The issue you're talking about comes into play if you are belaying two seconds and they are approaching from different angles. Say one falls near the end of the traverse, and is hanging below the belay now. The device is oriented down. The other second is before the traverse and still has gear above him. He falls, but the orientation of the device will not let it autolock. |
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Yes what Larry said. And... |
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Guide Mode. |
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None of this is an issue if you are properly employing your brake hand and braking force. |
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I think it's highly situational. |
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Tom, in the photo, you are pulling down on the brake. You should be pulling towards the last piece or towards the climber if the last piece has been removed keeping climber strand and brake strand parallel. The way you are pulling will reduce the devices ability to lock. |
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The device doesn't know or care which direction is up or down. It just sees forces. |
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If belaying two seconds, make sure you redirect both ropes to orient the pull on the ATC Guide from the same direction, generally by clipping both ropes into the same piece. |
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This issue can also occur with sideways loading with one rope and follower. New skinny, slick ropes (somewhere around 9.2mm and smaller) can invert in the belay device and circumvent the auto-locking effect. This does not tend to be a major problem on the ATC-Guide but is a known issue on other plaquettes (notably the Kong GiGi and the Eldelrid MegaJul). This inversion occurs easiest with sideways loading, but on the other devices mentioned could occur with sufficient load and a sufficiently skinny rope even with a "straight down" load. |
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powhound84 wrote: Interesting take. Care to explain?POWhound84..... The first time sombody used that set up on ME, I fell off and was about 15 feet below a roof..... Mr Wana Be Guide, mumbled something about "can you take your weight off?" Me: "no way, just lower me to the deck" Then I went for a ride, to the DECK... 20 feet sort of controlled.... The Next Time somebody had me on one of those, and he was a "guide" with certs, (but I wasn't paying a dime) I fall off and pendo 20 feet right, again out over nothing (guide training skips the "protect your second" now, I guess) So I'm in the air and ask to be lowered so I can start over..... Mr. Jr Guide says: "uhnn.. can you take some weight off???" Me: "no way, Just lower me to the ground" Then I went for a ride, ALMOST to the Deck.... stopped about 4 feet up.... So you see, one needs to be a "GUIDE" to know how to use one of those deals correctly. |
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Guy Keesee wrote: POWhound84..... The first time sombody used that set up on ME, I fell off and was about 15 feet below a roof..... Mr Wana Be Guide, mumbled something about "can you take your weight off?" Me: "no way, just lower me to the deck" Then I went for a ride, to the DECK... 20 feet sort of controlled.... The Next Time somebody had me on one of those, and he was a "guide" with certs, (but I wasn't paying a dime) I fall off and pendo 20 feet right, again out over nothing (guide training skips the "protect your second" now, I guess) So I'm in the air and ask to be lowered so I can start over..... Mr. Jr Guide says: "uhnn.. can you take some weight off???" Me: "no way, Just lower me to the ground" Then I went for a ride, ALMOST to the Deck.... stopped about 4 feet up.... So you see, one needs to be a "GUIDE" to know how to use one of those deals correctly. Lowering in guide mode is about the only time it's nice to be 245 lbs and climbing. |
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Guy Keesee wrote: The Next Time somebody had me on one of those, and he was a "guide" with certs, (but I wasn't paying a dime) I fall off and pendo 20 feet right, again out over nothing (guide training skips the "protect your second" now, I guess) So I'm in the air and ask to be lowered so I can start over..... Mr. Jr Guide says: "uhnn.. can you take some weight off???" Me: "no way, Just lower me to the ground" Then I went for a ride, ALMOST to the Deck.... stopped about 4 feet up.... So you see, one needs to be a "GUIDE" to know how to use one of those deals correctly.To be fair, it depends on what those certs are. If a Single Pitch Instructor, the GriGri is the tool to use as the plaquette is not within the scope of the cert. This is not to say that any user employing a plaquette is absolved from knowing how to actually use one, but it shouldn't necessarily be linked to a cert. This is a chronic issue that I can never seem to address fast enough: climbers using a plaquette without the knowledge and skills necessary to effect a lower safely. |