Mountain Project Logo

Non-Climbing Day Exercise

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Other thoughts w/ regard to swimming.

I was also a club then high school swimmer. Never collegiate.

There were several swimmers on my team who in time gravitated toward swimming, none of them, including myself had should injuries ever. I think this is due to core changes that the body undergoes while growing up in a swimming pool. This isn't advice, since it's too late. To any 8 year olds reading this, join the swim team.

Have we all forgotten that there is more than one stroke? Even though it goes deeply against my background, I think there is a lot gain from breaststroke and even sidestroke from a prevention and strengthening perspective. My mother teaches water aerobics, maybe that's useful too.

I started swimming again last summer. 1000yds is fuckin hard, I'm always out of breath, and I'm embarrassingly slow. I can't imagine hurting myself when old ladies wearing flowered shower caps are as fast as me. I can't climb often though and this definitely kept me in shape for the one summer trip I was able to go on (managed to onsite Black Elk in the winds off the couch).

All the pro-swimmer camp here is advocating short water workouts. Me too, here is one more reason. Water is cold. If you're cold a lot, your body will retain more fat. Plain and simple. In college and olympics, you don't see it, they're all ripped. In high school though, you'll see pudgy kids swimming 53 second 100 free, no doubt in shape, but his body has no reason to lean up in the low gravity and cold environment. So yeah, if you do swim, keep it short and go easy on the donuts.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

climbing friend,

pleasea do take a moment to refrain from trying to slap the others' wang through the tubes of the internet, myah? and answer my question this:

What would you be thinking about whether exercising on rest days, even if it is the running light or the groups of other non climbing muscle, would be slowing the recovery of your climbing guns that you have worked so hard to sculpt?

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
JWatt wrote: Bro. Do you even hangboard?
Climbing friend bro,

Do you even flash?
Joe Coover · · Sheridan, WY · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 20
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Water is cold. If you're cold a lot, your body will retain more fat. Plain and simple. In college and olympics, you don't see it, they're all ripped. In high school though, you'll see pudgy kids swimming 53 second 100 free, no doubt in shape, but his body has no reason to lean up in the low gravity and cold environment. So yeah, if you do swim, keep it short and go easy on the donuts.
I remembered reading a research study about shivering that contradicts your explanation above. I recommend reading the article on the link below. It's interesting stuff.
-Joe

"Body fat mass of the cold group significantly decreased at week 6 compared with week 0 (–5.2% ± 1.9% change, P < 0.05), whereas body weight and fat-free mass did not change significantly (Figure 3A). In contrast, in the control group, there was no significant change in these parameters. During the 6-week period, body fat mass decreased more in the cold group than in the control group (–0.70 ± 0.23 vs. 0.03 ± 0.21 kg, P < 0.05; Figure 3C). The change in body fat mass was inversely correlated with that in BAT activity (r = –0.62, P < 0.01; Figure 3F) and insignificantly with that in CIT (r = –0.43, P = 0.08; Figure 3H), which suggests that increased BAT leads to body fat reduction."

jci.org/articles/31505
Recruited brown adipose tissue as an antiobesity agent in humans
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35
Joe Coover wrote: I remembered reading a research study about shivering that contradicts your explanation above. I recommend reading the article on the link below. It's interesting stuff. -Joe "Body fat mass of the cold group significantly decreased at week 6 compared with week 0 (–5.2% ± 1.9% change, P < 0.05), whereas body weight and fat-free mass did not change significantly (Figure 3A). In contrast, in the control group, there was no significant change in these parameters. During the 6-week period, body fat mass decreased more in the cold group than in the control group (–0.70 ± 0.23 vs. 0.03 ± 0.21 kg, P < 0.05; Figure 3C). The change in body fat mass was inversely correlated with that in BAT activity (r = –0.62, P < 0.01; Figure 3F) and insignificantly with that in CIT (r = –0.43, P = 0.08; Figure 3H), which suggests that increased BAT leads to body fat reduction." jci.org/articles/31505 Recruited brown adipose tissue as an antiobesity agent in humans
You know, I think I already knew that and just wasn't thinking of that.

Fair enough, I can throw out the cold theory. After all, you need to raise your metabolism to stay warmer, good job calling me out on that.

What about the other half, that water dramatically reduces your fight against gravity? Therefore, a swimmer can still be pretty damn fast (though not elite) with higher body fat?

So maybe I don't know the reason but I do know swimmers. Swimmers can be awfully fast and overweight. They aren't usually fat. I'm talking about rolls on the belly, chubby arms, and chubby legs. I have no doubt that the swimmer is very strong underneath all that but doesn't have the definition of a well trained wrestler or climber or gymnast. I'd love to see an analysis of varsity HS swimmers who only do one sport vs varsity HS wrestlers or gymnasts who only do one sport.
Hank Caylor · · Livin' in the Junk! · Joined Dec 2003 · Points: 643
jedeye · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 18

Swimming can be great, but it can also add to climbing issues. Both use the pecs and lats a lot, pulling the shoulders in, reducing ROM and setting up an internally rotated imbalance that can lead to injury, or at least limited movement.

To get the most out of swimming, the focus should be on keeping the chest open, using the upper back muscles to lift the arms out of the water (during a crawl), and stretching the fingers forward, which can help open the whole chain of muscles along the arms and sides. (Think open armpits...) This stretching forward also works the upper deltoids, very useful in lifting our arms overhead as much as we do.

Breast stroke is good to mix it up. I like starting with my palms facing each other, so I'm keeping my arms at a neutral or external rotation, rather than the internal rotation that inevitably ends each stroke. To me, this 'resets' the shoulders, and opens them up for more crawl 'stretch and glide'.

Breathing on both sides is key.

Done right, I think swimming is very complementary. A little doorway or wall stretch afterward will keep the proper ROM. Elbows at shoulder height and higher, so you're stretching from fingertips through forearms, armpits, and, with hands high enough, into your ribs. That extra extension is always useful!

Other thoughts: Any exercise that challenges balance. Standing on one foot at a time, especially on an uneven surface, like a bosu ball or wobble board, pressing up onto the big toe as much as possible, and adding random movement and/or weights.

I like free weights, with arms outstretched to your sides (again, elbows above shoulder height), doing little lifts throughout the range of motion that uses the full top of the shoulder. Think wing flaps, with palms down, thumbs up, and then palms up - working the whole shoulder ROM. Presses toward the sky, too. It doesn't take much weight to get a good burn. 10-15 lbs is plenty. Do 10 reps of flapping while standing on one foot, 10 on the other, then presses to balance the shoulder girdle.

Two caveats for weights: NO CURLS!!! We use the biceps/forearm flexor muscle chain way too much as is. Curls will f you up. And since we grip so much already, holding a bar, especially a heavy one, will tax the forearm muscles a lot. Thus the exercises that use leverage more than weight. For the 'shoulder flapping', you can make a loop with some rope/webbing/shoelaces that attaches to each end of a free weight, and drape that loop over the back of your wrist. No forarm involvement, and some extra motion at the end of the 'arm lever' to challenge more deltoid fibers. You can still rotate the arms - palms down, forward, and up.

Happy Sendtember!

Joe Coover · · Sheridan, WY · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 20
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:What about the other half, that water dramatically reduces your fight against gravity? Therefore, a swimmer can still be pretty damn fast (though not elite) with higher body fat? So maybe I don't know the reason but I do know swimmers. Swimmers can be awfully fast and overweight. They aren't usually fat. I'm talking about rolls on the belly, chubby arms, and chubby legs. I have no doubt that the swimmer is very strong underneath all that but doesn't have the definition of a well trained wrestler or climber or gymnast. I'd love to see an analysis of varsity HS swimmers who only do one sport vs varsity HS wrestlers or gymnasts who only do one sport.
I was never a swimmer, and never worked with the population. I am also not great at physics so I can't tell you yes or no about your experience. However I did find a review of body fat percentage in swimmers and pasted the results below.

Swimming n=7 Mean age 20.6 SD 1.2 Mean Fat % 5 SD 4.5
Swimming n=13 Mean age 21.8 SD 2.2 Mean Fat % 8.5 SD 2.9
Swimming n=14 Mean age 19.9 SD 2.3 Mean Fat % 7.5 SD 3
Swimming n=39 Mean age 19.1 SD 4.5 Mean Fat % 12.3 SD 4.6

Body Composition in Athletes: Assessment and Estimated Fatness
sciencedirect.com.ezp.welch…

Addendum:

Refer to website below for explanation of why "body composition is only one of the considerations for optimal swimming performance."

usms.org/articles/articledi…
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Joe, this off topic stuff is more interesting than the OP.

So based on the numbers you put up, I think I grew up in a relatively isolated and fat population.

The link from the masters page does agree with me. All the strength/fitness in the world doesn't matter if your stroke sucks.

Climbing is like that too. While not elite, I know plenty of people who can climb 5.11 off the couch with nacho cheese on their hands. Only because they have all the technique necessary to do so. Where they differ, usually, is that in the years long process to become strong, most climbers also learn technique along the way. I have seen more than a few who are just really good at being bad, it's not their fingers holding them back.

astrov · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0
The Call Of K2 Lou wrote:In the words of Barry Blanchard: "A date with Mrs. Thumb and her four daughters."
Hearing this makes me even more sorry I missed Barry Blanchard when he visited the local Patagucci store here in town to promote his book.
curt86iroc · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 274

trail run, mountain bike, road bike, hike, backpack, ski/snowboard...

as you can tell, im a firm believer in being outside to get in a workout...and the best part (aside from initial investment in gear), its free!!

not a big crossfit fan. expensive membership, focus on quantity over quality and to be honest, i just don't see the same results as i get from my workouts. My co-workers are all in the crossfit cult, but can't keep up anytime we do activities together. Im not trying to toot my own horn...just trying to give some direct real world experience.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Training Forum
Post a Reply to "Non-Climbing Day Exercise"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.