The Cost of Climbing Gear

Jon H wrote: When I started climbing in 2000, MSRP on brand new Miuras were about $115 if I recall correctly

Currently the list price for Miuras is $160, a 39% increase over 15 years. Over the same period US CPI has increased from 172.8 to 238.7, an increase of 38%. So in inflation-adjusted terms the price has been basically flat.

Eric LaRoche wrote: The feds rape me enough for taxes and i don't get nearly that much worth in services. Screw all taxes and make everything fee based. You wanna drive on the roads, pay a fee. You want to send kids to school, pay a fee. Problem solved.

Except that you benefit from other people getting a good education, whether you have kids or not. Similarly, you benefit from other people being able to drive on those roads, whether you do or not.

By shifting the cost onto *exclusively* the direct users of the resource, you incentivize not using the resource, to the point that the cost to those direct users exceeds what they can make from selling their services.

I'm all for people with a bad business plan going under. But if long-haul truckers go out of business because we balk when they pass their "road-fee" costs on to us, we're all gonna go hungry.

Martin le Roux wrote: Currently the list price for Miuras is $160, a 39% increase over 15 years. Over the same period US CPI has increased from 172.8 to 238.7, an increase of 38%. So in inflation-adjusted terms the price has been basically flat.

While correct on the Miuras, I was more referring to the "top end" of climbing shoes. Then it was $115. Now the top price is nipping at $200.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Which is strange considering the exchange rate. I guess the Italians are feeling the pinch and we're their meal ticket.

Yeah, no kidding. I was just thinking that I should try to find some cheap La Sportivas, but it looks like the exchange rate hasn't filtered in yet. It took quite a while for cheaper gas to hit airline ticket prices, so maybe in a few more months...

Jon H wrote: While correct on the Miuras, I was more referring to the "top end" of climbing shoes. Then it was $115. Now the top price is nipping at $200.

Right, but that's a tricky comparison because today's top-end shoe is a different product than a shoe that's been on the market for 10 years. I was just making the point that if you try to do an apples-to-apples comparison then prices haven't changed all that much in inflation-adjusted terms. Here are a couple other examples that I found in old copies of Climbing and R&I:

Set of DMM Wallnuts: 1992 CPI-adjusted price $135; 2015 price $110
Omega Pacific oval biner: 1990 CPI-adjusted price $7.30; 2015 price $6.95
Petzl ascender: 1990 CPI-adjusted price $68.60; 2015 price $69.95
Blue Water 10.5mm 50m rope: 1990 CPI-adjusted price $210; 2015 price $200 (actually a 60m rope in 2015)

I must be the only one who really doesn't think climbing equipment is all that expensive. The cost of climbing gear for 10 years is less than $10K. Back when I was racing sport bikes I went through $400 in tires per day (x2 for the weekend) and that ignore the new bike every year for $15K-$25K. A weekend IPSC match is $200 - $400 in ammo alone. The list goes on. Heck, I know people who spend more on their cable bill per year than it costs me to climb.

Martin le Roux wrote: Currently the list price for Miuras is $160, a 39% increase over 15 years. Over the same period US CPI has increased from 172.8 to 238.7, an increase of 38%. So in inflation-adjusted terms the price has been basically flat.

Miuras were $146 in 1997. At least three other shoes from 5.10 and LaS were $146 or higher back then (source Mountain Gear's ad in Climbing #168)

And Vectors and Aces were at that time $148 and $150, respectively.

My 2 cents - shoes are cheap.

to me climbing gear is expensive because it's more expensive than what I did for fun before i started climbing (playing soccer in the back yard which costed around $100 a year for good cleets and a good ball.)

just because it's cheaper than racing motorcycles doesn't mean it's cheap. and if you have enough money to spend $400 a weekend on tires then maybe you aren't giving enough to the people who can't even afford to eat 3 meals a day or to feed their children

eli poss wrote: and if you have enough money to spend $400 a weekend on tires then maybe you aren't giving enough to the people who can't even afford to eat 3 meals a day or to feed their children

For the childrenz!

eli poss wrote:...if you have enough money to spend $400 a weekend on tires then maybe you aren't giving enough to the people who can't even afford to eat 3 meals a day or to feed their children

What a load of horse biscuits. Move out of the basement and get some real world perspective, the adults are talking here.

EDIT to add content. My Megas were ~$150 in 1990, TCs now ~$180. Cheaper in today's dollar.

"What a load of horse biscuits. Move out of the basement and get some real world perspective, the adults are talking here. "

Yes

eli poss wrote:to me climbing gear is expensive because it's more expensive than what I did for fun before i started climbing (playing soccer in the back yard which costed around $100 a year for good cleets and a good ball.) just because it's cheaper than racing motorcycles doesn't mean it's cheap. and if you have enough money to spend $400 a weekend on tires then maybe you aren't giving enough to the people who can't even afford to eat 3 meals a day or to feed their children

Damn dude, I know you're young and full of ideals but you crazy yo.

Bill Kirby wrote: Damn dude, I know you're young and full of ideals but you crazy yo.

How unique do you think his opinion is among climbers? Look at this thread...

climbing friend!

You must recruit a team of asian children by steal them from their parents and you make them work in your basement manufacturing your cams for the climbing rocks. I think this much cheaper than fancy and shiny retail profit prices, myah?

Climbing friend roach,

I concur. You must not buy the la sportivas and do the supporting of the most expensive climbing shoe money can buy, no matter the stirring in your loins you may feel when looking and sniffing a brand new pair on the shelves.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Heck, I know people who spend more on their cable bill per year than it costs me to climb.

Great example, especially if you need money for gas and meals. Paying 1000.00 a year for tv ads every 10 minutes is about the most brainless act in the world.

Jason Todd wrote: What a load of horse biscuits. Move out of the basement and get some real world perspective, the adults are talking here.

Actually, I do have real world perspective. I just spent the last 4 months living on my own, paying for all my own stuff (rent, food, clothing, gas) with a full time job and everything. the only thing my parent's paid for was health insurance and car insurance. and I managed to save up over a thousand dollars to get a head start on paying for college. So you can shove your "real world perspective" up your ass.

Martin le Roux wrote: Right, but that's a tricky comparison because today's top-end shoe is a different product than a shoe that's been on the market for 10 years. I was just making the point that if you try to do an apples-to-apples comparison then prices haven't changed all that much in inflation-adjusted terms. Here are a couple other examples that I found in old copies of Climbing and R&I: Set of DMM Wallnuts: 1992 CPI-adjusted price $135; 2015 price $110 Omega Pacific oval biner: 1990 CPI-adjusted price $7.30; 2015 price $6.95 Petzl ascender: 1990 CPI-adjusted price $68.60; 2015 price $69.95 Blue Water 10.5mm 50m rope: 1990 CPI-adjusted price $210; 2015 price $200 (actually a 60m rope in 2015)

While that information is possibly true, you also have to consider other factors. In the early 90's, climbing gear was a very specialized, low-volume market. In any specialized, low-volume market, the cost is always going to be high. While gear is still somewhat of a specialized market, it's far less specialized and much higher volume now than it was in the 1990s. "Back in the day" gear was almost entirely hand assembled, and very labor intensive. While there is still labor involved, there is far less involved now than before. Today, Black Diamond can turn out thousands of carabiners in no time--not so much in the early 90s.

eli poss wrote: Actually, I do have real world perspective. I just spent the last 4 months living on my own, paying for all my own stuff (rent, food, clothing, gas) with a full time job and everything. the only thing my parent's paid for was health insurance and car insurance. and I managed to save up over a thousand dollars to get a head start on paying for college. So you can shove your "real world perspective" up your ass.

We'll just leave it at that. You'll get a chuckle out of this in a few years.

The only thing that cost in climbing is really shoes and gas to get to the wall. Outside of that I have maybe 2k in gear that I have bought slowly over a few years.

I guess depending on what you are doing you could be spending alot more on certain things but for the average person 2k in gear should get you everything you need and last 5+ years minus the replacement of certain gear as it wears. That is less than 500$ a year minus shoes and gas (and really this gear is going to last alot longer than 5 years) and is imo isn't that costly.

Climbing has a certain cost to get started, but than if you are going out and dumping 2k+ into gear without knowing what you are doing you are stupid. Most people climb with others who have gear to learn and build up their own over time.

I would put it maybe on the lower min level compared to alot of other things out there. On a scale of 0 to 100 maybe in the 25 level.

Climbing friend,

Do you even flash?