Found gear at the Gunks
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Of course, as soon as you try to generalize that most climbers are nice people, a few will be determined to prove otherwise.. |
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The booty Rulze were taught to me in the early eightys roughly allong those lines. |
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Ive been climbig at the Gunks for five summers got my start there so I have plenty of experience bud. Rather climb it the 'dacks these days mostly cause of the Brooklyn hipsters who clog the place up every weekend with skinny jeans and trapps-app conversations and whining that thers no gps info to find the rap stations LOL! real mountains and granite vs nyc and north Jerseys outdoor climbing gym you tell me! |
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Dan you are obviously very new to the sport. the sport has some funky traditions. You can thumb your nose at them if you like but that does not make you a better person than the folks who play allong with the traditions. |
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I thought it's worth a quick update that it was in fact my cam that the OP cleaned - a green alien on Try Again. It's a bit mangled and needs some new trigger wires (very likely from my own work trying to remove it) but I'm glad to have it back. |
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Alien trigger wires fixed by Jason @ anicescrew.com |
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I think common decency trumps the booty rules! |
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I think the current/standard booty rules in use at the Gunks are a perfectly reasonable tradition, though I also feel there is nothing wrong with being a nice person and returning gear too, especially if you know who left it/they are in the vicinity, which has been the case the only two occasions I have retrieved struck cams (I'm not very good or patient at retrieving stuck gear). |
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sara pax wrote:The proceeding post would in booty rules speak fall under lost gear, which according to the booty rules should always be returned. The booty rules are not cold or selfish, they are decent and just and allign with the good nature of climbers.If following the "rules", there's no way to tell if this gear was 'lost' or if the owner forgot about it and didn't want to make the hike back up the approach trail to retrieve it that evening. If someone were to follow the booty rules strictly, then they might have kept the gear assuming the owner was too lazy to pick it up. Using the filter of 'common decency' however, John determined that the owner should get the benefit of the doubt and found him to return his gear. (also assuming that you meant the preceding post which was mine, not Logan's) |
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Nick Goldsmith wrote:Dan you are obviously very new to the sport. the sport has some funky traditions. You can thumb your nose at them if you like but that does not make you a better person than the folks who play along with the traditions.+1 Those booty rules posted earlier are merely the written version of what has been the norm at the Gunks and the northeast in general ever since the early 70's (updated a bit to account for the net). Also, after almost 45 years of climbing, it still seems imo that 3 years is that magical point where someone thinks they are a climbing expert and start doling out advice and edicts about what people should do. |
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Marc801 wrote: +1 Those booty rules posted earlier are merely the written version of what has been the norm at the Gunks and the northeast in general ever since the early 70's (updated a bit to account for the net). Also, after almost 45 years of climbing, it still seems imo that 3 years is that magical point where someone thinks they are a climbing expert and start doling out advice and edicts about what people should do.Who does that Tradman think he is? With the rules of booty and what not? Seriously though, I find the booty rules to a game of give and take. I left a sling and two biners one day then found a sling, locker and a nut two days after. |
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Karma has been mentioned in a booty thread. Please lock the thread now, as no further discussion is necessary. |
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Bill Kirby wrote: Seriously though, I find the booty rules to a game of give and take. I left a sling and two biners one day then found a sling, locker and a nut two days after.Agree. If a piece of mine gets left because I choose to bring a gumby that's on me. I end up finding gear enough that losing a couple nuts here and there is fine. I've lost gear to whipping on it and was more than happy to not deal with trying to get it out and just count it as money well spent. I'm sure someone cranked on it with a tool for a while and got it out and am happy for them. I |
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Dankasaurus wrote:Karma has been mentioned in a booty thread. Please lock the thread now, as no further discussion is necessary.The best example of karma I ever encountered was in the Gunks some time in the 80's.... There was a good climber working at freeing some of the remaining aid lines and putting in some of the earlier 5.12 routes. He was also a bit of an obnoxious dick and a cheap bastard, known for, among other things, pulling fixed pro (pins) out of 7s & 8s for use on his 11/12 projects. He believed his projects were more worthy than those lesser, easier climbs that the masses gravitated toward. He became aware that there was a fixed cam on the last pitch of Three Doves, so he went up to booty it. Unable to remove it on his first foray, he returned with a hammer and chisel and managed to free it, but in the process a rock chip lodged in one of his eyes. Once on the ground, no amount of flooding the eye with water was able to dislodge the chip. He sold the cam for $40 but was eventually forced to go to the hospital to remove the chip. Having no insurance, that visit cost him $350. Karma. |
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Thought I would add a beginning to what abandonment by law means which state by state has specific requirements. I put this out so that if someone ever gets arrested for theft of what they thought belonged to them under this "Booty Rule" they would be prepared. Yes, I know getting called on this gear is highly unlikely but, it is theft. I do not understand why as climbers we think we can make up our own rules. |
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A person's intention to abandon his or her property may be established by express language to that effect or it may be implied from the circumstances surrounding the owner's treatment of the property, such as leaving it unguarded in a place easily accessible to the public. The passage of time, although not an element of abandonment, may illustrate a person's intention to abandon his or her property. |
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If no one ever pulled another 'stuck' or abandoned peice of gear out of the Trapps from now until forever, the majority of popular routes would be "sport" climbs before then end of 2016... |
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+10 :) |
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Nick Goldsmith wrote:Dan you are obviously very new to the sport. the sport has some funky traditions. You can thumb your nose at them if you like but that does not make you a better person than the folks who play allong with the traditions.Well, actually it literally does make him a better person if the traditions are morally inferior. Just because it is "tradition" doesn't make it correct or moral. In fact, a lot of traditions are really fuckin' stupid. I could make a list. Though I would imagine most folks practice a much kinder version of those booty rules laid out by Pax. Anyways OP, hope you can find the owner, good on you. |
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it's all about karma. Sometimes the mountain takes away and sometimes it gives back. |